Petrol and diesel car sales ban brought forward to 2035

[Munroast]

Engines? they don't have engines? Long range DC transmission? Do say more. Large wind turbines produce AC?

Not sure about this (so it is more of a question) is the quality / frequency / hertz of wind power fairly poor and inconstant that you may as well transmit it as DC then convert it back to a more grid standard AC ?
I'm thinking HVDC lines is a renewables thing? and not really worthwhile from traditional power stations

 

[EddieM]

Not sure about this (so it is more of a question) is the quality / frequency / hertz of wind power fairly poor and inconstant that you may as well transmit it as DC then convert it back to a more grid standard AC ?
I'm thinking HVDC lines is a renewables thing? and not really worthwhile from traditional power stations

No idea, why bother with distributed power with all it's concomitant losses and inefficiencies when you can generate it at source?

 

[SFK]

Munroist,
The the quality / frequency / hertz of wind power is excellent and to meet the stringent requirements of the National Grid.

Typically it is done using point-of-load pitch-control of the blades.

By adjusting pitch the Higher wind speed will lead to the same torque as before, harvesting a smaller portion of the wind's energy, thus keeping speed times torque- the power - constant at constant frequency.

 

[Munroast]

Munroist,
The the quality / frequency / hertz of wind power is excellent and to meet the stringent requirements of the National Grid.

Typically it is done using point-of-load pitch-control of the blades.

By adjusting pitch the Higher wind speed will lead to the same torque as before, harvesting a smaller portion of the wind's energy, thus keeping speed times torque- the power - constant at constant frequency.

I have noticed ones near me have a speed of around 16 rpm from a strong breeze to near gale force (when they switch em off)

heading completely off topic - they don't appear to be going that fast but at just under 16rpm the tip speed will be about 160mph, which is about the same speed as the edge of an 9" grinding disc.

 

[EddieM]

Imagine an "almost" virtuous circle, hydroelectric, producing clean electricity, using that to split water (plus other hydrocarbons) to create useful chemicals, plus hydrogen, universally the most abundant element, bottling it, or indeed as perhaps, fancifully re-purposing the exist in gas network, then with almost no big changes to existing infrastructure utilise it for cars.

Then look at Lion batt tech or indeed any batt tech. Batt sh*t more like.

 

[Brigadier]

heading completely off topic - they don't appear to be going that fast but at just under 16rpm the tip speed will be about 160mph, which is about the same speed as the edge of an 9" grinding disc.

Surprisingly fast, given how lollopingly slow the blades always seem to go.....

 

[durhamplumber]

But is full electric better for the global environment than hybrid, if you are still burning fossil fuels to generate electricity?
I think we had this discussion before ... memory failing.

We did...one benefit is no one breaths in exhaust fumes

 

[JP_]

Yeah, that is important, but it won't stop global warming if we are still burning fossil fuels to get the juice to put into batteries.

And lithium extraction is already causing environmental damage on a large scale - it will only get worse as more cars ditch petrol for batteries.

I am really not convinced how sensible battery powered cars will be - in 15-20 years there'll be hundreds of thousands of batteries sitting in landfill.

Bit of Friday night reading ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...with-environmental-consequences/#636e8e0362e2

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/l...-electric-vehicle-battery-waste-mountain.aspx

Horse and cart will always be best.

 

[SFK]

Eddie

fancifully re-purposing the exist in gas network, then with almost no big changes to existing infrastructure utilise it for cars

Unfortunately due to very small molecule size of hydrogen you cannot use normal pipes and containers as it tends to leak out of the smallest holes. And that is before you liquidize it and then have to cope with massively low temps.
But fuel cells do look promising (if expensive due to platinum and micro bore holes. )
Sfk

 

[EddieM]

Eddie

Unfortunately due to very small molecule size of hydrogen you cannot use normal pipes and containers as it tends to leak out of the smallest holes. And that is before you liquidize it and then have to cope with massively low temps.
But fuel cells do look promising (if expensive due to platinum and micro bore holes. )
Sfk

Indeed, well aware of the difficulties of handling hydrogen, when I meant use the existing infrastructure I meant that fuel stations don't need massively expanding as they would with EV technology.

Fuel cell cars of course need catalysts (platinum) but.. they produce no harmful emissions so need no Cat's at the back end. Tech wise, a much better proposition than BEV's IMO. (just because BEV's are the focus, doesn't mean it's the best solution) After all, if and I fully admit a big if, what's gonna happen to all the wind turbines and hydro plants, if fusion energy supplies the whole world. Cheap turbines on eBay, 99p no reserve, buyer to collect.

 

[JohnD]

environmental damage

I wonder how it compares to damage caused by the oil industry.

 

[IT Minion]

I wonder how it compares to damage caused by the oil industry.

It's been done to death, there's loads and loads of studies trying to compare which is better and how much.

In short: EVs take more energy to build and so cause more immediate carbon and pollution in general. So if you built an EV and an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle and blew them both up on the dealers forecourt, the ICE is better for the environment.

Once the car is built each mile it drives causes some pollution/carbon. EVs are much lower polluting than ICEVs (with the UK grid right now) so after around 50,000 miles or so they have earnt back the extra pollution they needed to build them. After that point they're less polluting until the car is eventually written off.

That's all with the current UK grid. As more renewables enter the system the EV gets less and less polluting. Also as the countries which make the batteries move more to renewables the up front pollution also decreases a lot.

That wasn't so short was it.

TL;DR
EVs are better if you do moderate to high milage. The more miles the better and they'll only improve as time passes.

 

[IT Minion]

Yeah, that is important, but it won't stop global warming if we are still burning fossil fuels to get the juice to put into batteries.

And lithium extraction is already causing environmental damage on a large scale - it will only get worse as more cars ditch petrol for batteries.

I am really not convinced how sensible battery powered cars will be - in 15-20 years there'll be hundreds of thousands of batteries sitting in landfill.

Bit of Friday night reading ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...with-environmental-consequences/#636e8e0362e2

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/l...-electric-vehicle-battery-waste-mountain.aspx

Horse and cart will always be best.

EV batteries are expecting about a 20 year useful lifespan. Probably about a decade in an EV and then in static grid use for the rest. Recycling is important but the main challenge at the moment is there isn't enough batteries being recycled to make it cost efficient.

 

[JohnD]

You missed out Nigerian oil swamps, Exxon Valdez and Deepwater Horizon

 

[EddieM]

EV batteries are expecting about a 20 year useful lifespan. Probably about a decade in an EV and then in static grid use for the rest. Recycling is important but the main challenge at the moment is there isn't enough batteries being recycled to make it cost efficient.

Forget batteries, it's a crap solution.