Apparently the chimney has been blocked off...

[BillyWillySilly]

Another nice find in our house. We're having some plastering done and decided the horrid electric fire is going, along with the surround. I pulled out the fire easy enough to find cardboard behind it (fire hazard - although the fire itself was more for effect than heat). And the sound of material falling down.

Taking an upsidedown image of the flue:



That does not look blocked off to me but what are your thoughts? I can not feel a draft up it though? We are going to take the surround away next.

 

[BillyWillySilly]

The point is mainly I don't know what I'm looking at - I expected to see something relatively solid behind there and nothing is solid - a metal plate for example blocking off the flue. I'm not sure the cardboard would have come over the top either to block off the hole in picture 2. I just generally don't put cardboard and fire together with the word safety. Surely another material would be more preferable?

Regardless, I'm mainly concerned that this has not been blocked off properly.

 

[sxturbo]

Knock it all out clean.

Batten and board it how ever you like but remember to fit some form of ventilation.

On the top of the chimney make sure it has a cover over it to stop rain from coming down but still allow the house to breath.

Without doing the above it is likely damp problems will occur

 

[BillyWillySilly]

So far it appears dry, and checking the chimney...there is no chimney! So the fireplace has been stuffed with rubbish over the years. There's still a flue there but the chimney physically removed from the house.

 

[sxturbo]

So far it appears dry, and checking the chimney...there is no chimney! So the fireplace has been stuffed with rubbish over the years. There's still a flue there but the chimney physically removed from the house.

Result then, still need to have ventilation to stop any condensation building up.

 

[Nige F]

As bobasd would say .....sweep the flue

 

[ted456]

Dangerous advice was given above - proximity to any heat source can ignite any paper or wood - there's no need for "that cardboard to entering the fire workings".
Thats why there are Regs regarding gaps between anything flammable and a heat source, say the joist trimming round a hearth or the heat gap as a hot vent passes through a floor or a partition.
The above Cardboard could have burst into flame if any part of it reached 450F to 485F.
The process of how and why it can do this is called Ignitability or Autoignition

 

[BillyWillySilly]

We've now removed the fireplace and can see that there was a wider space initially. It was made smaller at some point in the past - probably to fit a previous gas fire which is no longer used. The brick for the newer, smaller firebox is not in good shape and can be physically moved on the left side, and it seems to be angled inwards and sits pround of the front end of the chimney breast. I suspect a few blows of a lump hammer would have that shifted. This makes me wonder if we should open it up as far as the older firebox? It seems to match a fireplace in the other room - around 90cm wide and 45cm deep. It would then give us some more options in terms of either a new log burner (although external flue would be needed part of the way up) or just block it off as a feature.

The only thing I cannot be sure of is the presence of a lintel higher up as there is a lot of historical patching there.

 

[ted456]

Remove the remaining plaster, and then remove the infill brickwork up to the arch. You will then have a more clear idea of whats what.
Your flue is inside a chimney breast - yours is an internal c/breast, and presumably goes up through the roof to a chimney stack.
Is there a fireplace in the room above?
All flues to be swept and smoke tested.
Is there a hearth in front of the fireplace?

Unless you select an appliance and work to its required opening dimensions you might find yourself down the road doing the work twice.
Beware of any elec cables and gas pipes.
Clear all rubble as you make it.

 

[BillyWillySilly]

Remove the remaining plaster, and then remove the infill brickwork up to the arch. You will then have a more clear idea of whats what.
Your flue is inside a chimney breast - yours is an internal c/breast, and presumably goes up through the roof to a chimney stack.
Is there a fireplace in the room above?
All flues to be swept and smoke tested.
Is there a hearth in front of the fireplace?

Unless you select an appliance and work to its required opening dimensions you might find yourself down the road doing the work twice.
Beware of any elec cables and gas pipes.
Clear all rubble as you make it.

There is a fireplace in the room above. But the chimney stack was removed sometime ago.

 

[ted456]

OK, is the first floor fireplace open or blocked off?
Does the chimney breast run all the way up into the loft and stop there?

Obviously, certain (most) kinds of burners and homely appliances need to vent their fumes and smoke to outside. Another reason for you to make an early selection.

What about the other questions?

 

[BillyWillySilly]

Thanks @ted456. We've pulled some more rubble out there but here are the answers as far as we know:

Looks like there was a hearth but it's a mess of concrete with broken floorboards to the sides. We cannot seem to get to something that isn't rough concrete - elsewhere in the house there were ceramic tiles and I suspect these are present in the room above. The wall has been plastered with no vent in the room above. But we can now clearly see the flue:


I've no idea the last time the flue was swept. Also, cannot for the time being access the attic to check where the breast ends but it is not on the outside of the house. This side of the house has been rendered in the past and I think that may have something to do with the chimney being removed. Only external walls that had chimneys are rendered so there may be something in that.

If we fit a burner, it will be a smaller log burner. We like the idea of a wider firebox so are not concerned about it being as large as it now is - it's a fairly large room. Even if we don't fit it now, we would like to work on the assumption that something will go in there in the near future. The fireplace rmeoval has flagged that our carpet may need replacing so this job is getting bigger every minute

We cleared as much as we could but think we found a lintel - but it's small:


It does not span the width of the fireplace so either this isn't it and it's further up or was removed in the past? I cannot see anything below that span of red bricks supporting it from below.

You can see at the back there's a mess of rubble, old ceramic tiles and dress stone concreted up.

 

[BillyWillySilly]

OK - cleared all the infill. The rough concrete must be an attempt at a hearth as underneath appears to be loose dirt and random stones.

We kept the plasterwork on the left due to the lintel concerns raised earlier - I didn't want to disturb the lower row of red brick more than I had although it does appear sound. Some of them have a slight wobble but most are solid.

 

[ted456]

Is the pic up a flue showing the flue on the ground floor or on the first floor?
For the moment, you can leave the arch and "lintel" alone, and chisel out the "mess of rubble" to expose the back wall, and clear out any loose debris in the remains of the hearth. After a clean up then post another pic please?

Given the arch looks shaky and the stub of rusting "lintel" is not to be trusted, you could hire a Strong Boy to prop the face of the c/breast from above the arch while you work below.
Do you want to have a raw exposed brickwork c/breast or a rendered c/breast - do you want the arch to be repaired and remain?
What you want to do with the hearth area the will depend on what you want in the way of an appliance? Typically, hearths are re-built in the safest manner possible and finished to suit.

Is your intention to open up and use the upstairs blocked off fireplace?

How many chimney breasts and fireplaces do you have in your house?

The side cheeks of the c/breast look rough and so does the return wall LH & RH behind - perhaps examine the lower walls and flooring for signs of damp.

 

[ted456]

I've just replied post#16 without realising you had also just replied.

Well done for all that very hard and skilful work in such a short space of time. And good thinking for leaving the shaky bits alone.
I'm impressed with your energy and impulsive get stuck in attitude - well done again.

The floor boards and hearth trimming joisting doesn't look too clever, there are water stains and rusty looking nail heads- is there any rot? Typically, c/b trimming joists have been in contact with moisture rising from the hearth soil infill.
Have you been below the floor to inspect your joists and ventilation?

I can show you how to deal with the hearth (and all the rest) but first there's a few above questions?