Advice on fireplace

[tomg86]

Hi,

We're in the process of renovating our living room and are replacing the old gas fire with a fake/electric woodburner.

Had the fire removed and gas supply capped off and now we've got round to removing the fire surround, mantel etc.

Bit disappointed to find some questionable brickwork and no obvious lintel.

The actual chimney stack is external to the building (built in late 50s), but I still presumed a lintel might still be required to support the internal brickwork above?

Our aim was not to widen or deepen, just to tidy up and have the cavity plastered ready to put a small/medium sized fake woodburner in.

I've attached a photo of the current situation.

Any advice on how to approach this is greatly appreciated

 

[HERTS P&D]

Why don't you put a wood burner in there, it will help with you fuel bills.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheTortoise

Andy

 

[tell80]

1. Clean up the rubble, try not to work over or in debris.
2. Remove the hearth grippers.
3. Drop plumb lines on either side - so you can cut and hack off the plaster to a neat line.
4. Once you have the installation dimensions for the new appliance then work to them.
5. Remove all the infill and lintel - if you are going in for a large appliance opening then use a strong boy prop.
6. If soot is present in the flue then have the flue swept.
7. The back hearth (in the opening) is high - is that what you want?
8. The redundant gas pipe should be cut & capped back where it branches off. Dont leave it live.
9. Any signs of damp around the earth?

 

[martygturner]

There is a lintel its on the rebuilt fire back. That lintle is supporting a 45 degree triangle of bricks above it so about 8 bricks worth. Just fix a 2x4 batten across the line of bricks that you want to keep , plug and screw the end of the batten then into each brick centre, bricks supported get rid of the lash up and pop in a lintel, the chimney above will not collapse its toothed in from the rear wall like a lego wall. eg as below

 

[keveen21]

Why don't you put a wood burner in there, it will help with you fuel bills.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheTortoise

Andy

Would make more sense after all that work. Widening the fireplace is the expensive bit. £2-£3000 quotes for doing similar to mine and installing a stove. https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...ly-necessary-to-open-up-the-fireplace.597279/

 

[tomg86]

Hi All,

apologies for not replying sooner and thank you for the suggestions

to answer some of your questions

- don't really want to go to into details but we're not currently interested in a log/multifuel stove.
- no signs of any damp (thankfully)

I've spoken with some friends and family who seem to agree that some acrows/supports above where we want to place a lintel should work and allow us to tidy/square up the fireplace.

I'm going to remove some more of the plaster and completely clean up the area so we have a clearer picture of then decide if we want to tackle this ourselves or bring someone in.

Cheers, Tom

 

[mrrusty]

some acrows/supports above where we want to place a lintel should work and allow us to tidy/square up the fireplace.

You really don't need acrows. As @martygturner says above, it's only a triangle of bricks that could drop, and his suggested method of drilling and plugging a batten across is as good as any. Pop a concrete lintel across, tidy up the brickwork above it. Job jobbied.

 

[tomg86]

Hello all, I cracked of this past week and made a start

I proceeded to install a concrete lintel on the front layer of bricks, replaced the bricks that dropped above and today began removing from below.



my question is, I'm not certain how to proceed making the fireplace as wide as we wanted (aiming for approx. 800mm wide after plastering)



the sides of the flue, which goes up at an angle, look like they might stop me doing this or at least I would need some other way to support them if I removed any bricks? am I correct in assuming that these are bearing load of those above them? or are they supported in some other ways?



Thanks, Tom

 

[martygturner]

The bricks to the side are toothed in to the back wall, its self supporting.

 

[tomg86]

thanks, i would presume (hope) so. my worry is that even if that's the case, I'm not sure at what points they would be toothed in, certainly I can't see how those immediately above would benefit.

if I were to remove those with red crosses in the photo, those bricks directly on top (with green crosses) would only be staying in place with the existing mortar? , and gravity would eventually take over?




presumably either we just let the bricks come away until the keyed ones remain (how would we be certain we've got them all) or is there an alternative, possibly angled steel in from front to back for those green bricks to rest on?

Also curious about those small slips of bricks between them and the back wall... just used as padding while constructing? To keep it level?

 

[martygturner]

They are toothed in to the side wall...a brick comes out the back wall and is constrained by the brick above and below, next the green brick 1 closest to the back wall comes off that brick at 90 degrees, green brick 2 closest to the lintel is comes off a brick toothed into the front wall.

It has to be this way otherwise the whole weight of the chimney would be resting on that bottom half brick just poking out the wall...think about it.

 

[dawz84]

They are toothed in to the side wall...a brick comes out the back wall and is constrained by the brick above and below, next the green brick 1 closest to the back wall comes off that brick at 90 degrees, green brick 2 closest to the lintel is comes off a brick toothed into the front wall.

It has to be this way otherwise the whole weight of the chimney would be resting on that bottom half brick just poking out the wall...think about it.

I assume that pretty standard so each level of the corbelling then supports itself. So you could take out a few levels at the bottom if you wanted more hieght?

I've had the same query here: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/widening-fireplace-corbelling.598822/

Thanks for the help.

 

[tomg86]

They are toothed in to the side wall...a brick comes out the back wall and is constrained by the brick above and below, next the green brick 1 closest to the back wall comes off that brick at 90 degrees, green brick 2 closest to the lintel is comes off a brick toothed into the front wall.

It has to be this way otherwise the whole weight of the chimney would be resting on that bottom half brick just poking out the wall...think about it.

I understand there the must be interlinked/toothed bricks behind, and, as a whole that structure supports itself.

but the location of these interlinked bricks can't support things below them? maybe I'm missing something here, but i still don't see how those green bricks (and subsequent levels above) would stay floating in place if the red bricks were removed? there can't be anything supporting them below other than the red bricks i would remove?

 

[martygturner]

And....what is it the problem...if you need to remove the red ones do so, the green ones may or may not move pop a tile in to give them some support...its 4 bricks. The point being that they are not structural item of the chimney they are just the flue liner. The bits above will not collapse.

 

[tomg86]

I'm not sure that it would be just 4 bricks? they continue in that orientation for a least several more course above so could potentially be all the flue liner bricks on that side.

it's not that it's a problem if they fall away, i would just rather they not if possible, which is why i thought it best to put something in to support it.
or at the least, get them all out in one go and not leave anything nasty behind to fall at a later date.