EICR - tester exceeding remit and the regs?

[aptsys]

• Small gap between water pipes and ceiling (less fire resistance)
• Inadequate unlinked fire alarms (it has mains and battery backed linked smoke alarms on landings, and in-date. I also fitted a CO detector despite this not being regs and am investigating a whole of building system with the other property owners that is agreed in principle)

Neither of these two points bear any relevance to an EICR. Why is this even being reported?

Have you paid him yet?

 

[SUNRAY]

Well, I did say in normal settings but - the Line would be in L and the Neutral in N.

If you are going to say that the installer might have reversed the polarity, then likely any identification would be on the wrong conductor as well.

The issue of confused additional markings is most likely to occur at some later time after installation, especially if red/red has been used in a ceiling rose for the L&N feed, one only has to glance at the forum to see how many times they need sorting out.

IMO any coloured sleeving should whenever possible be done in the original colours of the cable being marked otherwise they get very confusing.

 

[SUNRAY]

Well, I did say in normal settings but - the Line would be in L and the Neutral in N.

If you are going to say that the installer might have reversed the polarity, then likely any identification would be on the wrong conductor as well.

The issue of confused additional markings is most likely to occur at some later time after installation, especially if red/red has been used in a ceiling rose for the L&N feed, one only has to glance at the forum to see how many times they need sorting out.

IMO any coloured sleeving should whenever possible be done in the original colours of the cable being marked otherwise they get very confusing.

 

[EFLImpudence]

All true - but if you're going to say that there is "no possibility of confusion if everything has been done correctly, then, as you imply, the reg is pretty useless/meaningless.

Could be unless one actually needs identification.

I have in mind two six-gang two-way switches I once installed containing the six switch cables and six 3core strapper cables.

Do you think it would have been required or helpful to add the 18 bits of brown sleeving?

 

[SUNRAY]

Could be unless one actually needs identification.

I have in mind two six-gang two-way switches I once installed containing the six switch cables and six 3core strapper cables.

Do you think it would have been required or helpful to add the 18 bits of brown sleeving?

How many T-shirts??

 

[EFLImpudence]

Nine?

 

[JohnW2]

Could be unless one actually needs identification. I have in mind two six-gang two-way switches I once installed containing the six switch cables and six 3core strapper cables. Do you think it would have been required or helpful to add the 18 bits of brown sleeving?

Well, but I suppose it would only be 'not required' if one invoked your "no possible confusion" argument (which, as I said, more-or-less anihilates any usefulness of the regs). I suppose the question is whether it is required that there remains "no possible confusion" even after one has disconnected the conductors from their terminations.

As for 'helpful', I don't think it's ever helpful having conductors going to light switches 'identified' (as L or N), in any way - at least, when all conductors going to the switch are on the same phase. I personally actually prefer brown/blue (or red/black), with or without over-sleeving, rather than brown/brown (or red/red), since it allows for a convention which allows one to know (oneself) which is S/L and which is P/L - which can sometimes be useful if one is going to do 'linking' between switches in a multi-gang situation.

In the situation you describe, the most 'helpful' identification would presumably be nothing to do with L/N but, rather, a means of identifying 'which of your 6 cables was which' !

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

In the situation you describe, the most 'helpful' identification would presumably be nothing to do with L/N but, rather, a means of identifying 'which of your 6 cables was which' !

Exactly.

 

[SUNRAY]

Could be unless one actually needs identification.

I have in mind two six-gang two-way switches I once installed containing the six switch cables and six 3core strapper cables.

Do you think it would have been required or helpful to add the 18 bits of brown sleeving?

Had a job soon after harmonision adding intermediate switch in a 2W sytem where the 3C&E carried N and 2 strappers, initially I installed a piece of old colours 3C&E but the consultant insisted on harmonised and it got very silly with colours.

 

[EFLImpudence]

in a 2W sytem where the 3C&E carried N and 2 strappers,

A case where identification would be needed.

 

[SUNRAY]

A case where identification would be needed.

Oh yes totally agreed, it's more the combination of colours, made more confusing by the consultant.

 

[Adam_151]

I've long thought it would be sensible to allow the use of L2 and L3 colours on lighting circuits for different purposes, i.e, Feed in brown, switched live in black and emergency supply in grey, however you'd need another colour for 2w strappers!.

I have seen it done on 60s conduit installations where the feeds were all red, the strappers were white and the switch wires were blue, unfortunatly it can end up with a bit of a mess when you have to introduce harmonised colours, I seem to remember having to replace a blue switch wire with brown because the fitting was going to end up with several blue neutrals and it would have been a right mess

Perhaps thats why I've also seen purple used as an emergency feed, not sure where purple came from, or how easy it was to order purple singles though

 

[winston1]

Perhaps thats why I've also seen purple used as an emergency feed, not sure where purple came from, or how easy it was to order purple singles though

Just take a day trip to Calais (after Covid 19). The French use purple or orange as switched wires.

 

[JohnW2]

I've long thought it would be sensible to allow the use of L2 and L3 colours on lighting circuits for different purposes, i.e, Feed in brown, switched live in black and emergency supply in grey ...

Isn't that essentially what we do when we use 3C+E (or 4-core flex) for such purposes (albeit the black and grey theoretically should have brown over-sleeving in a single-phase installation)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[R Benny Waered]

I got guidance from NICEIC themselves :

We do offer the following guidance based on our general guidance given to contractors in Best Practise Guide No 4 which we have attached for your information.

1. Plastic consumer unit in entrance hallway. (BPG 4 page 15 under examples of C3 codes)

1. Small gaps around 2 x 15mm pipes going through ceiling in hallway

Pipes are outside the scope of the wiring regulations BS 7671. Not sure what electrical danger this presents.

1. No linked smoke/heat alarms as per council regulations. (BPG 4 page 16)

Outside the scope of the wiring regulations should be recorded without a classification code.

If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.


Regards

NICEIC & ELECSA Technical Services.

Certsure LLP|Warwick House|Houghton Regis|Dunstable|LU5 5ZX

How best to tackle this guy now? I think my liability is covered though (thanks for making me jump through such hoops after paying you £200) as he is clearly acting outside of the regs. If I forward him this it might get his back up and frankly I want nothing more to do with him. But I do want a pass. Absolutely ridiculous!

And thanks for your help and advice guys - much appreciated as a fail is no laughing matter for any diligent landlord.