Will this pass an EICR?

[goosander]

I may need to relocate for a while and am considering renting out my flat and have just begun researching my obligations as a potential landlord and it seems that you now need to have interlinked main powered smoke alarms and an EICR for the property and PAT test appliances etc (property is in Scotland).

The flat is circa 1990, so electrics a little dated now and there have been some subsequent additions that are in my opinion safe but not ideal.

Will a property fail an EICR for any of the following:
- Old consumer unit (circuit breakers but no RCD)
- Some electrical wiring (mainly for lighting in cupboards) is surface mounted, partly in plastic conduit, partly with the T+E clipped direct to wall.
- There is a spur off the ring main that supplies lighting and sockets in a cupboard (for IT equipment) and then spurs to a further single socket elsewhere - all of this is protected by a 13A FCU.

Since the consumer unit is pretty old, if I were to have it replaced with a modern one - would the electrician have to perform an EICR as part of the work?

Thanks...

 

[JohnW2]

Will a property fail an EICR for any of the following:
- Old consumer unit (circuit breakers but no RCD)
- Some electrical wiring (mainly for lighting in cupboards) is surface mounted, partly in plastic conduit, partly with the T+E clipped direct to wall.
- There is a spur off the ring main that supplies lighting and sockets in a cupboard (for IT equipment) and then spurs to a further single socket elsewhere - all of this is protected by a 13A FCU.

The second and third points are fine. The requirements for RCDs are not retrospective, so you could expect at least a 'recommendation' to fit them (which, in practice, would probably mean a new CU), but (depending upon what you mean by the word), should not result in a 'fail'.

Since the consumer unit is pretty old, if I were to have it replaced with a modern one - would the electrician have to perform an EICR as part of the work?

Not as such. However, the amount of inspection and testing that the electrician would have to undertake when replacing a CU (in order to complete and issue an EIC) would go a far way towards 'an EICR', so it probably would not take much more time/effort/cost for him/her to undertake a full EICR at the time.

Kind Regards, John

 

[goosander]

Thanks John, your reply is pretty much what I was hoping for! Just need to find out how much an EICR actually costs, I'm guessing they are quite time consuming, so not cheap... If I could get a new CU thrown in for not too much more though, at least it would feel like I'm getting some tangible benefit from the expense.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John, your reply is pretty much what I was hoping for! Just need to find out how much an EICR actually costs, I'm guessing they are quite time consuming, so not cheap... If I could get a new CU thrown in for not too much more though, at least it would feel like I'm getting some tangible benefit from the expense.

You're welcome.

Just to expand on my previous reply, surface wiring (with or without conduit/trunking) is quite acceptable, even if unsightly. As for the spurred items, you can connect as many things as you like to a fused spur from a ring circuit (i.e. one in which everything is supplied via an FCU).

As I said before, I would imagine that a CU change plus EICR would not be dramatically more expensive than the CU change alone.

Kind Regards, John

 

[aptsys]

Didn't think you could pass/fail and EICR. Isn't it a condition report, not a test?

 

[securespark]

Yup.

 

[Iggifer]

Well it's satisfactory or unsatisfactory. In the eyes of insurance companies, letting agents etc an unsatisfactory is akin to a fail

 

[JohnW2]

Didn't think you could pass/fail and EICR. Isn't it a condition report, not a test?

Indeed. that's why I said that it depended upon what one meant by the word ('fail'). However, as Iggifer has said, most of those who matter regard an 'unsatisfactory' EICR as being essentially a 'fail'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

In England and Wales where the EICR is not compulsory, the Best Practice Guide lays out what we should and should not include, not saying I agree with all it says, picture on page 6 to my mind is beyond ones remit when doing a EICR as the problem is not part of the installation which is what the "I" stands for with EICR. Same with immersion heater without cut out, where multi forms of heating are used and the header tank is not made of thermal plastic there is no need for the cut out, as it would be activated by the other forms of heating.

However it is what most use as their guide, and it does state you can have rewireable fuses. Personally I would say you can't have rewireable fuses where the person in charge is classed as ordinary, they are OK where one has an instructed of skilled person in charge, but not ordinary, a cartridge fuse is OK.

The problem is it is down to the electrician doing the inspection, we have people who state it is OK if it was allowed on a previous copy of the regulations or allowed at the time when it was fitted, however if wired to the first edition Entitled `Rules and Regulations for the Prevention of Fire Risks Arising from Electric Lighting'. Issued in 1882. I am sure there would be some items now considered as very dangerous. So SIXTEENTH EDITION (Red Cover) Reprinted as BS 7671:1992. (Red Cover) Amendment No I issued, December 1994. Is really the first British Standard edition so many consider that as being the earliest edition one can in real terms consider as being valid as far as regulations go. I don't now have one that old, BS7671:2001 is the earliest I now have, so even if it was allowed in 1992 I don't have any way of being able to check, so if it does not comply with BS7671:2001 I would have to consider it unsatisfactory. Even if knife switches were allowed when the installation was completed I would now fail it.

I also question if we need to have electric in the house full stop? If we have a farm house with oil lamps etc, can it be failed because it does not have any electric supplied to it? If not then how can we ask for mains operated smoke alarms?

 

[Adam_151]

As said by others, #2 and #3 above are not issues, the lack of 30mA RCD in #1 is non compliant. Issues on a EICR can be coded as:

C1 - Immediatly Dangerous, Urgent action required
C2 - Potentially dangerous, Action requried ASAP
C3 - Non compliant, does not achieve the current level of safety requried, but not considered at risk, improvements are recommended

(I paraphrase on all of these)

Depending on the chap doing it, you might also get some non-compliant bits noted, but not coded, things such as green only earth sleeving that would have been 4 on a previous coding scheme, but now do not get coded as no one is suggesting it should be changed.

Sockets without RCD protection for general use are going to be C3 in most instances, but C2 if there is a reasonable prespect of them being used outside, now in a flat you could argue that they arn't going to be used outside, however how high up is it and wheres the parking? if right oughtside and no more than 3/4 stories up then the extension lead out the window to vacuum the car is something that could be reasonably expected IMHO.

That said, RCD protection to all socket outlets* in rented properties is a very good thing, and perhaps providing that might provide some 'good landlord points' (if anyone ebven notices!!) even if the cost benifiet analysis doesn't really stack up in their favor

*That includes the fridge / freezer point... I think we often overlook the fire provention aspect of RCDs, especially to items containing wound components such as a fridge compressor. Given the number of recalls over the last few years, the fact that for green reasons most domestic fridges are gassed up with voltile hdrocarbons and recent events in London, RCD protection to these is desireable, I feel. If on the kitchen ring, loss of power would be noticed before teh food spoiled anyway, unless away on holiday, in which case other appliances would be unplugged or switched off at spurs and a trip is unlikely (with exceptions of noise / spikes) affecting it

 

[deadshort]

If you are letting you will require RCD protection on all circuits and a mains smoke detection,and heat detector in the kitchen, all must be interlinked. And a carbon monoxide detector (mains),if you have gas in the property. This is the minimum requirement from letting agents in Scotland.

Kind regards,

DS

 

[goosander]

Was aware of the requirement for mains powered interlinked smoke detectors, and CO detector (think battery powered OK) but didn't realise there was a requirement for heat detectors. Not saying you are wrong, but could you point out where this is mandated?

Thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

Was aware of the requirement for mains powered interlinked smoke detectors, and CO detector (think battery powered OK) but didn't realise there was a requirement for heat detectors. Not saying you are wrong, but could you point out where this is mandated?

I may be wrong (in which case I'm sure that others will correct me!) but I'm not sure that the heat detector in the kitchen is 'mandated' - an (interlinked) smoke detector might well be acceptable. However, heat, rather than smoke, detectors are usually recommended for kitchens, to avoid all the unwanted alarms which are likely to be triggered by cooking if one has a smoke detector in a kitchen.

Kind Regards, John

 

[goosander]

Yes, a heat detector makes sense for the kitchen but as far as I'm aware there is no actual requirement for a smoke detector in the kitchen - only one per floor. Currently the smoke detector is in the hall partly to reduce unwanted alarms and partly because it is the best location to ensure it is heard anywhere in the flat (not that that would be an issue - they are loud).

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, a heat detector makes sense for the kitchen but as far as I'm aware there is no actual requirement for a smoke detector in the kitchen - only one per floor.

That may be true, but you would need someone familiar with the requirements in Scotland to confirm (or otherwise). Deadshort's post seemed to imply that a detector in the kitchen was part of "the minimum requirement from letting agents in Scotland", but I may have misunderstood him.

Kind Regards, John