Building Garden Room up to back public road + existing very high party wall

[TofuSpaceship]

On the topic of garden rooms and Permitted Development.

We live in a very standard terraced house but our garden is somewhat peculiar: the end of the garden has a highway on one side, a neighbour which erected (no idea when) a 3m high wall made out of concrete blocks and another neighbour whose ground level is 1.5m higher than our ground level (we are at road level).

Before we consider the maximum height of this hypothetical garden room, is the public road (a road with no pavement and no house fronts I must add, it just has back accesses on both sides) going to be a problem if we want to build this garden room up to the boundary of our property?
I read "It is not closer to a road or public highway than the original house itself." but this puzzles me, surely it applies more to the front of the house?

Disregarding now the public road issue, and taking about maximum heights and adjoining neighbours: would the rule of maximum height of 2.5m (close to the boundary) still apply, seeing that we have a 3m high wall on one side and a 1.5m higher garden on the other?

I can imagine that rule will still apply, therefore based on these very simple facts, if we were to apply for planning for a 3m high garden room, do you reckon we will get it?

Or alternatively, what are your experiences with retroactive planning?

Thanks

 

[wessex101]

If the outbuilding is concealed behind an existing 3m high wall I think the planners would struggle to find a reason to reject your planning application.

However, if the planners wanted to be especially nasty they could query the legality of the existing wall. How long has the wall been there? If recent then it could be a problem. If it's been there for years then less of a problem.

 

[TofuSpaceship]

I would think so, planners would find it hard to justify for us to build an outbuilding stretching to 3m high and on the boundary, thanks to the wall on one side and the neighbours garden being on an elevation of 1.5m on the other side.

Regardless of height, I am still uncertain what the public highway which runs next to our property means in terms of outbuilding.
If I interpret it correctly, PD doesn't allow for any outbuilding to be built any closer than the main house to a public highway; the back of our house is 20m away from the public highway.

If PD only allows that, I am left wondering how much more than the PD restriction would a planner stretch - and of course if we were to involve a planner, then our hands would be tied and would have to follow his/her guidelines.

 

[wessex101]

Are you sure about that public highway rule. That's a new one on me but outbuildings and PD aren't my strong point.

 

[TofuSpaceship]

Not entirely sure, hence why I am writing here.
Planning portal mentions
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation

Which in hindsight I should have done a better job at interpreting it myself

Meanwhile this renowned design building website states
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Planning_permission_for_garden_buildings

• It is not closer to a road or public highway than the original house itself.

Which threw me off.

Ultimately, I found a Scottish document that does a very, very neat job in presenting all different circumstances and drawing a diagram for all of these. Very neat. Everything is always better up north!
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/conte...df/00502132-pdf/govscot:document/00502132.pdf

So it looks like indeed it only matters when such outbuilding is built on the front of the house.

Back to it then, if only fronts of houses matters in terms of building next to a road, then I might as well not contact planning at all and just build a shed not any taller than the neighbouring wall!

 

[KenGMac]

Everything is always better up north!

Apart from the weather??

Pity England does not have a similar document ?

Ken.

 

[DevilDamo]

Ignoring the PD rule for outbuildings forward of a principle elevation, which this does not seem to be the case, you’d have to comply with the outbuilding being no more than 2.5m high if positioned within 2m of a boundary. Irrespective of how high this existing wall is, that does still mean it’s a boundary.

If you’re wanting to position the outbuilding within 2m of a boundary and it will exceed 2.5m in height, you will require formal Planning. Whether the LPA will grant approval will depend on Local Plan policies along with any relevant design guidance. In trying to use the wall to your advantage may not be a valid argument, especially if it does not have any listed or protected status. In other words, what would stop you or somebody else from removing this wall and therefore exposing this larger outbuilding? It’s not that dis-similar to buildings being shielded by trees, which can offer some degree of barrier but only if they’re protected.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

That makes sense, as a TPO prevents a tree dying from old age, disease or being brought down by a storm.