Can the Covid Prophets twist these numbers please?

[JP_]

If a death certificate is completely correctly, both covid and heart disease should be mentioned. This is Scotland, I assume England same or similar

The cause of death statement
This section of the certificate is divided into two parts. In part I you should first state
the immediate cause of death. You should then work back logically to the disease or
condition that started the process. The last statement that you write in part I
should be the main disease that led to death. This is also known as the underlying
cause of death and it is important information for epidemiological purposes. In part II
you should state any significant condition or disease or accident that
contributed to the death but which was not part of the sequence leading
directly to death.
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files...tificates/f11-notes-and-form-1jan99todate.pdf
​

So it really should have said something like, heart attack as the immediate cause of death, and covid as an underlying condition

Maybe both are recorded, but people just focus on the covid part? Although, if they were not tested for covid, presumably because they were being treated for a heart attack, when how did doctors know covid was present?

 

[IT Minion]

If he died at home then he wouldn't be admitted so no Covid test. Doctors are able to certify Covid based on symptoms without test results if they think it was Covid.

Unfortunately the amount of old school paper notes in some NHS trusts means it's far too way for notes to go missing. Especially when you're having to repurpose wards and overloaded.

 

[denso13]

when how did doctors know covid was present?

This is England,

"Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement."

Doctors can use clinical judgement, but the again some people think doctors lie on death certificates.

 

[JP_]

Doctors are able to certify Covid based on symptoms without test results if they think it was Covid.

I understand this. But, if somebody dies of a heart attack at home, then they are not going to be showing any symptoms of covid. Only a post mortem could determine if they had covid or not. But apparently no test was done.

 

[ellal]

Doctors can use clinical judgement, but the again some people think doctors lie on death certificates.

If doctors are told/advised to include the word 'virus' on a death certificate whether or not it was the cause of death, then official statistics show it as a 'virus' death...

Why bring up the word 'lie' as your defence?

 

[denso13]

If doctors are told/advised to include the 'virus' on a death certificate whether or not it was the cause of death

Like any other disease. Covid is no different.

 

[denso13]

Like any other disease. Covid is no different.

"You should also enter any other diseases, injuries, conditions, or events that contributed to the death, but were not part of the direct sequence, in part two of the certificate. The conditions mentioned in part two must be known or suspected to have contributed to the death, not merely be other conditions which were present at the time."

 

[denso13]

Why bring up the word 'lie' as your defence?

Because you think the numbers are over inflated. The numbers are taken from death certificates filled in by doctors "to the best of their knowledge and belief". Ergo, you think doctors are lying on death certificates.

 

[ellal]

Ergo, you think doctors are lying on death certificates.

Nope...

If doctors have to report what a person has when they die, why do the official figures give the cause of death as the 'virus' whether or not it is the cause?

But obviously from your post you have been indoctrinated as to not question the figures

 

[denso13]

If doctors have to report what a person has when they die

They don't, I quoted above from the guidance, you are lying. "The conditions mentioned in part two must be known or suspected to have contributed to the death, not merely be other conditions which were present at the time."

why do the official figures give the cause of death as the 'virus' whether or not it is the cause?

They don't, you really aren't getting the of, or with, are you?

Just like any other disease, "You should also enter any other diseases, injuries, conditions, or events that contributed to the death".

Did you moan about the completion of death certificates before Covid came along?

 

[IT Minion]

I understand this. But, if somebody dies of a heart attack at home, then they are not going to be showing any symptoms of covid. Only a post mortem could determine if they had covid or not. But apparently no test was done.

Under normal circumstances they'd need to do an autopsy by law. But who knows with Johnny.

 

[IT Minion]

They don't, I quoted above from the guidance, you are lying. "The conditions mentioned in part two must be known or suspected to have contributed to the death, not merely be other conditions which were present at the time."

They don't, you really aren't getting the of, or with, are you?

Just like any other disease, "You should also enter any other diseases, injuries, conditions, or events that contributed to the death".

Did you moan about the completion of death certificates before Covid came along?

Ellal is getting confused between the two main data sets.

For hospital deaths the mere presence of a positive test means they will be included in the Covid deaths, even if it isn't relevant.

For death certificates then it isn't automatically included as far as I know.

 

[johnny2007]

You're getting angry again.

I could I not?
You're questioning the fact that a question mark (?) is at the end of a question or not.

Doctors certify deaths. Do you think they are lying?

No, they were panicking and exaggerating.
Could it be that they were told to stick the word "covid" wherever they could? (Note the question mark which indicates that this is a question)

The month by month comparisons are to the same month.

Ok, you further proved that you can't understand such things with only 3 neurons.
Well done for trying very hard though.
If we were in school I would give you a smileys face sticker.

If somebody is in an ICU with covid, you don't need to test. You need to give them oxygen.

I honestly don't understand why your cousin was recorded as covid. That makes no sense. Was that written on the certificate?

Main reason for death: covid 19
Contributing factor: heart attack.
He was kicked out of a&e twice and told to take gaviscon for heartburn.
He died at home.
His wife is now suing the nhs but his last medical history has gone missing, including the non existent test and cremation paperwork.

 

[noseall]

Main reason for death: covid 19
Contributing factor: heart attack.
He was kicked out of a&e twice and told to take gaviscon for heartburn.
He died at home.
His wife is now suing the nhs but his last medical history has gone missing, including the non existent test and cremation paperwork.

Have you just made that up?

 

[denso13]

Could it be that they were told to stick the word "covid" wherever they could?

Lie you mean? No, I don't think so.