Formula 1 championship decider on Sunday.

[Justin Passing]

As far as the cars that were allowed to un-lap themselves, and those that weren't, here is the criteria for selecting which cars can un-lap themselves and which can't:

If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the Safety Car. This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the Safety Car was deployed.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...grand-prix-on-its.7rTWOXxJ5lpvg38nrCYfM3.html​

If anyone can understand that, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din.
I only watched the belated highlights, so I have no idea which cars were applicable to that criteria, and which weren't.
I've never know that criteria to be applicable before, and as far as I know all lapped cars were allowed to un-lap themselves.

It doesn't change the fact that Masi initially decided that cars would not be allowed to un-lap themselves until Horner complained, and then he changed his mind.

That means there should have been another lap. It could be argued Merc would have therefore chosen to get soft tyres, but that time had passed, they hadn't done so. Another lap wouldn't have made any difference, MV would have had longer on the softs - is that right?

Yes LH has long since gone so deep into corners that a.n.other has to stop or go off - it needs tightening.

 

[just pumps]

That means there should have been another lap. It could be argued Merc would have therefore chosen to get soft tyres, but that time had passed, they hadn't done so. Another lap wouldn't have made any difference, MV would have had longer on the softs - is that right?

Not quite, by rights the racing should start 1 lap after the safety car comes in therefore the race would of been over.

 

[AngleEyes]

That means there should have been another lap. It could be argued Merc would have therefore chosen to get soft tyres, but that time had passed, they hadn't done so. Another lap wouldn't have made any difference, MV would have had longer on the softs - is that right?

Not quite, by rights the racing should start 1 lap after the safety car comes in therefore the race would of been over.

I think you're both confusing the issue. The race was 58 laps long. You can't shorten it at will (unless there's a red flag or som'at)
And you certainly can't extend it.
That part of the discussion is when the safety car comes in.
Normally, after all (lapped) cars have un-lapped themselves, the safety car lights go out, and the safety car comes in at the end of the following lap.
But Masi wanted the race to end under a green flag.
So
a) he only allowed some cars to un-lap themselves. To allow all (lapped) cars to un-lap themselves would have added another safety car lap, and the race would have ended under the safety car. I don't think he has that discretion. But by making the decision that he did make was to remove any threat of Sainz challenging MV for 2nd place. Whether he could have, would have, is beside the point because we'll never know. Masi removed that threat to MV.
b) he shortened the return of the safety car by one lap. He basically said some cars can un-lap themselves, and more or less at the same time the safety car lights went out, and a message was sent that the safety car would be coming in at the end of that lap, rather than, as usual, coming in at the end of the following lap. He does have that discretion.

This was all in order to end the race under a green flag. But of course it inevitably gave Red Bull a massive advantage.

Yes LH has long since gone so deep into corners that a.n.other has to stop or go off - it needs tightening.

??? Drivers can choose their own line. LH's line is no different to anyone else's.

 

[ajohn]

Yes LH has long since gone so deep into corners that a.n.other has to stop or go off - it needs tightening.

Your correct about tightening up.

LH's criticisms relate to earlier on in his career. Recently as worrying about this seemed to have ended he sent Max off and received penalties. With Horner getting as much mileage as he possibly could out of it as well. He's bean winging at the slightest possible opportunity. At times it's worked - rear wing, one side fractionally out no signs at all of what Horner was "complaining" about. Max feels Merc's wing, gets a fine that wont worry him at all. Was there an improvement in Redbull performance after that? Then comes Merc's exponential increase in top speed when it's a few mph. The TV people love him. Toto can't or wont compete.

It's amazing all things considered that Lewis managed to finish up with the same number of points.

So we have a period where all started leaving space, praised when it happened and suddenly Max pops up who even says he will not change his driving style. What do people think he is talking about. It's blisteringly obvious. Get out of my way or you will have a crash. No driver wants that - maybe Max did when both went out. That is what a technical foul looks like. It leaves Max ahead. Even better if just Lewis goes out.

 

[denso13]

I'm surprised Perez was retired, even Perez sounded surprised.

The paddock gossip is that Perez was underfuelled so he could go quicker and interfere with Hamilton's race more easily. He had to be retired or he would have run out of fuel.

Reb Bull said he was retired because of overheating, water and hydraulics, but weird that Perez had no warnings on his dash and was surprised he was asked to pit.

Who knows....

Apologies if this point has been made already.

 

[denso13]

They could and they did and they elected not to pit.

They couldn't pit when in front, Max would just done the opposite and taken the win anyway.

 

[Stivino]

For me, Hamilton was robbed. He had just passed the five who were allowed to unlap themselves and, built up a ten second lead only for Verstappen to be put right behind him with one lap to go, get the tow to pass Hamilton then the chequered flag. WTF?
I think it was an injustice.
Hamilton was magnanimous in defeat in a way that no other could be.

 

[Diver Fred]

Seems there will be a further appeal by Merc and it could end up in court, which is a rubbish way to settle an exciting championship. I hope Lewis might tell them to let it go for the good of the sport, as ultimately it's his championship/race that was lost not the constructors championship...

Even in defeat Lewis (and his dad) were gracious. Not like last weekend when Max stropped his way off the podium...

I think Masi should now resign his position as race director. He hasn't done the sport any favours especially as this race had a far greater audience than normal. When many prominent sports people and other F1 licensees are saying they don't understand the thinking behind the ending of the last Safety Car period something has got to be done. Because of that total F***Up of the race I also think the result should be voided. Makes no difference to the championship results. Masi has overseen 2 races this year that are embarrassment to sport - Spa and Saudi.

I'm certainly less enthused to follow the sport next year - was planning to go to Silverstone at least.

 

[just pumps]

Sadly I can no longer afford to get into Silverstone since the 80's. Before then it was every year.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Sadly I can no longer afford to get into Silverstone since the 80's. Before then it was every year.

The first (and last!) Grand Prix, I attended was in 1986 at Brands Hatch (and at a very young age!). I will always remember the Vulcan flying over Pilgrims Drop.
We only knew there had been a massive crash at the start, because someone in the crowd had a portable TV with them!

 

[just pumps]

Can't remember the year or where but do remember the harrier jet doing a vertical landing on the circuit after flying over the car parks and setting off all the car alarms - Priceless!

 

[denso13]

only for Verstappen to be put right behind him

He said he wanted a race to the finish but that was never going to happen. Max behind Lewis with a lap to go was only going to finish one way. As Karen Horner said on the radio to Masi "we only need one racing lap".

 

[empip]

The drive of a real world champ - LH.

Max, through his own fault, was required to start on soft tyres.
RB's idea being a sprint over several laps, providing a gap, then get on the better tyre.

The champ got the drop on Maxi off the line, some inevitable shenanigans left LH in front - the Champ at work.
Max guessed he was making no headway, so in for tyres, during this, RB's Perez did the inevitable self sacrifice, making his car wider and holding up LH for some 7 secs. Not good for Perez self esteem, an 'also ran' used as legitimate road block - but ultimately only serving to make LH drive even more like a champion - LH clears Perez, Max was on fresh medium tyres at this stage and was was 1 sec behind in 2nd on fresh medium tyres, LH had the hammer down, after Max dived in for tyres - again, LH had some 18 secs on him.
Max needed to claw back about 0.8 sec per lap, starts out looking good, but the Champ had reserves which he brought into play.
Horner dejectedly admitted something along the lines of 'It's all over, we virtually have no chance...'

into the scene wobbles Latifi - He who had once achieved 2nd place in a F2 championship, great prospect ? - loadsa dosh, his old fellah had/or has some $230 million in at least one F1 team, the youngster drops the batten and parks into the wall.

Safety car out - LH has, through some excellent, relentless driving, on, by now, well worn tyres - has several lapped cars and 11 secs between himself and Max - the latter dives in for soft tyres, returns back on track with a seemingly (and by all that is right and proper) mountain to climb, after being out gunned for the majority of the race.
LH on 40 odd lap worn tyres was cruising to victory - brilliant drive to save his WC status.
If the Aussie Masi, running the show, can legally stretch the interpretation of the Safety Car rules, then I would have thought LH deserved the nod to at least have the time advantage of "also rans" to unlap themselves both in front of max and behind, after all, LH had passed them all and built a relatively massive lead, which given his prowess he would have converted into a deserved WC win.

No ! Max was engineered into a position he did not really deserve -immediately behind the WC on fresh soft rubber boots.
All because of Latifi's poor driving and poor judgement by the acting race "controller" - Perhaps Masi was acting on the pressure of imagined or real? mass brainless hysteria, Twitter, other media pressures etc or even Horner's demand of one racing lap? If the race ended under the safety car as maybe it should have done whist awaiting all the 'also rans unlapping themselves

Maxi, in my opinion, has not been the same driver after his crazy shunt into the wall, In the quietness, of reflection he will know he did not deserve to win the final race or the WC, LH out drove him - again. only to have his well earned buffer of 11 sec lead, plus lapped cars stripped from him for no real logical reason.
I hope Lewis does not, dejectedly retire, If anyone can bounce back - he will.
Should Max retain the WC he should also know that the first time a big rule interpretation once again goes his way, he will (should) be vilified, hopefully LH will be gunning for him in a well prepared car.

Masi ? Slow boat to Oz is the right way to go.

-p-

 

[AngleEyes]

I hope Lewis does not, dejectedly retire, If anyone can bounce back - he will.

I suspect next years car changes will see Mercedes regain dominance, unless Honda do some remarkable achievements with their engines over the winter.
Next years changes are mostly about wind flow over, around and under the cars, allowing easier following of other cars, which is where Mercedes struggled these last couple of years.
The engines remain more or less the same.
So the changes to downforce generated, and how that is generated will, I suspect, adversely affect Red Bull.

 

[Old Salt]

Red Bull have the development rights to that engine, they negotiated with Honda once Honda said they were withdrawing from formula 1. So I think it depends how deep the RB pockets are.