Tile trim around the bath - should it be siliconed after fitting and tiling?

[DIYNotIan]

Hi all

We recently had a new bath installed. It is surrounded by walls on three sides, and it turned out that one of the walls wasn't square leaving a larger gap. So when it came to tiling, the tiler said it would be best to have a tile trim, the type you put into place before tiling and then tile onto. The bath was siliconed before the tile trim, then the trim was added and then the tiles...

The plumber said he would come back to add more silicone as a final step. But when he came back (he had other work to finish as well) he changed his mind and said the silicone wasn't needed. I asked whether water would get under the trim but he said it wouldn't be a problem.

Just wanted to check in with you guys whether you think he is right, or whether it needs sealing?

Many thanks and hope you've all had a good Christmas.

Cheers

 

[ktuludays]

Imo and from experience those things are always gonna cause issues, I'd always silicone them and the silicone will need refreshing every couple of years. For me, they are a bodge/after thought because the job wasn't planned properly in the first place.

Did the plumber even discuss this issue with you before fitting the bath?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Hopefully the 'plumber' filled the bath before siliconing it (it's the standard top tip, bath will deflect a bit when it's full)

 

[ktuludays]

What's under the trim? Hopefully, lots of silicone cos when water gets past that trim it will get further if not sealed properly around bath.

 

[BlueLoo]

I thought this way of tiling behind a bath has been obsolete for decades?

Isn't it tile-onto-bath now?

Have a look at sealux.com.

A few current solutions to the problem but the Aquastrap is now the norm.

I used sealux strip recently to reseal my bath and its good at what it does but its nothing like the aquastrap which i couldn't retrofit without reting the bath....

If yours is a bonded seal system (doubt it) you should be ok.

If not, you will be revisiting it as/if the system settles (sags).

Keep an eye on it.

 

[DIYNotIan]

Imo and from experience those things are always gonna cause issues, I'd always silicone them and the silicone will need refreshing every couple of years. For me, they are a bodge/after thought because the job wasn't planned properly in the first place.

Did the plumber even discuss this issue with you before fitting the bath?

That's not good to hear

After having fit the bath, and having applied the silicone around it, the plumber showed me that the walls weren't square and so the silicone width on the right hand side front was wider than the rest. When the tiler he came, he said the best solution was to use one of those trims. It's all new to me so I took his word for it that it was the best solution. Which isn't much like me as I usually question everything. It slipped through the net!

Hopefully the 'plumber' filled the bath before siliconing it (it's the standard top tip, bath will deflect a bit when it's full)

Nope, but can totally see why it would make sense to do so. My partner's having first bath just now, so will see how things look afterwards.

What's under the trim? Hopefully, lots of silicone cos when water gets past that trim it will get further if not sealed properly around bath.

The plumber used a lot of silicone around the bath before the tiler came. So that's what will be beneath the trim, although there will be a gap as the silicone was just a little proud of the bath's edge. If that makes sense?

Have a look at sealux.com. A few current solutions to the problem but the Aquastrap is now the norm.

I used sealux strip recently to reseal my bath and its good at what it does but its nothing like the aquastrap which i couldn't retrofit without reting the bath....

If yours is a bonded seal system (doubt it) you should be ok.

I'm not sure what he used to be honest, but it looks similar to sealux strip. Nor am I sure whether it's a bonded seal system (or what one of those even is). The Aquastrap looks like a great system. Feeling a bit peeved now that he didn't discuss the options


I'll post some more photos below. The first two show where the tiles and trim meet the wall at the end of the bath. That shows better how the tiles sit on the trim. and the type of trim profile that was used, which may give a better clue as to what it is. Photos 3 and 4 show the silicone from beneath the bath - at the head end (applied before the tiler came), and photos 5 and 6 show the same at the tap end.

Any further thoughts most welcomed and thanks for the help so far

 

[Madrab]

Certainly got enough silicone in there so as long as he filled the bath and let it set with weight in it, it should hopefully stay watertight.

Not to add to the list but there doesn't seem to be any support under the edges of that bath, no batons etc? What is the bath sitting on? Ideally you want a small baton on each of the left and right corners to stop the bath deflecting when and hand and weight is put onto it. Ideally there would be a larger one along the back too.

 

[ktuludays]

Grout/silicone look cracked in one of those pics

 

[BlueLoo]

Well, it would probably work.....
But its a grot-fest once water gets under the seal and you have to hope its 100% filled else the water will find the weakness.

Don't worry about it.

It will probably be fine. Just look under the bath for the first few times and then every so often afterwards.

Enjoy the new instal.

 

[DIYNotIan]

Happy new year everyone.

Certainly got enough silicone in there so as long as he filled the bath and let it set with weight in it, it should hopefully stay watertight.

Nope. Bathed wasn't filled when he initially siliconed, nor when the tiler grouted. We've only used the bath once so far and there's definitely cracks appearing, as @ktuludays spotted (they might have got worse since the bath but it's hard to say):

Not to add to the list but there doesn't seem to be any support under the edges of that bath, no batons etc? What is the bath sitting on? Ideally you want a small baton on each of the left and right corners to stop the bath deflecting when and hand and weight is put onto it. Ideally there would be a larger one along the back too.

No worries RE adding to the list! It's best to know these things. The bath came with 4 small plastic wall brackets. He used 3 of those. Aside from the it's just sitting on the legs/feet that came with the bath. I'll add a photo showing the brackets in situ. Is all that enough, or should there have been batons?

Don't worry about it. Enjoy the new instal.

Thanks for the optimistic words But it's hard not to worry and to enjoy it if it hasn't been done right. It's frustrating too. Cheers though.

 

[Madrab]

Apart from aesthetics, the cracks in the grout wouldn't worry me too much, the design and install nature of the tile edge is such that water cant track under. I would run a little bead of silicone along it to tidy it up and seal it. The plastic brackets are ok, as long as they are nice and secure in the wall. They're not what I would use, I throw them away all the time and use wooden batons along the long and short edge as I don't believe those small brackets provide enough support along the length of the bath edge but that's just me.

The idea of filling the bath is to compress the seal as it sets. Once it's sets then it holds the bath securely so when a weight is added to the bath, it doesn't compress/move as much and therefore stressing the joint.

 

[DIYNotIan]

Hi

I've been away at work and so haven't been able to do anything to the bath yet. I have had time to read a bit more about it though... The verdict I've reached through reading is that siliconing onto the grout wouldn't be a good. Firstly it would be far better for the silicone to go INTO the gap that the grout is currently in. It would make for a much better longer lasting seal. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, the silicone is there to accommodate future movement whilst keeping things water tight. Having both grout and silicone bridging a gap isn't good from the movement point of view.

With that in mind I'm wondering whether I'll need to bite the bullet and remove the grout before applying the silicone. Just to be clear, I'm referring to where the bottom tiles meet the trim, but also to the vertical sections where two walls meet; which have also only been grouted.

Any thoughts?

Regarding baton, I got in touch with the bath manufacturer (Carron). I had been confused by the installation guide which showed wood within the lip of the bath. They have confirmed that there is wood encapsulated into the resin and that all is needed is the feet and wall brackets. He said baton can be used in addition if fitting the bath to a non-supporting wall. All the walls around our bath are solid, so I think we're ok on that front.

Thanks a million

EDIT:

I say this with hesitation, but I guess there is another more drastic option... Remove the bottom row of tiles, and the plastic trim, and half start again. Or totally start again - but not sure how easy removing the copious amounts of silicone between bath and wall would be.

Obviously I'd rather avoid doing any of that, so if it's going too far then great. But if it needs that level of re-doing to be a decent watertight job, then I might as well face up to it now!

 

[Madrab]

If the tile themselves are stable and the grout between them is solid. The just rake out the loose grout between tiles and seal and fill with a minimal fillet of silicone.

As suggested I don't think the cracking grout would cause a problem with it being watertight. Looks like there is plenty of silicone between the bath edge and wall and under the plastic tile trim. The water won't capillary back as the trim has an upstand behind the tile so just take out the loose grout and seal that and it should be fine.

 

[BlueLoo]

What has happened is that the sealing strip is so well bonded to the bath that its being pulled away from the grout when the bath moves, hense the crack.

Given the way its all out together, that is never going to change.

So, replacing the grout with sealant will be fine.

It won't stop the potential for leaks under the seal but thats discussed above.

A tip if you do reseal with sealant is to use masking tape to form a straight edge when smoothing off.

The corners are the difficult bit.

Do this with the bath full.

 

[DIYNotIan]

If the tile themselves are stable and the grout between them is solid. The just rake out the loose grout between tiles and seal and fill with a minimal fillet of silicone.

Sorry if I've given the wrong impression, but there is no loose grout. The tiling has only completed a few weeks back and the bth has only been used once. It's all solid, just cracked, and potentially not what should have been used.

As suggested I don't think the cracking grout would cause a problem with it being watertight. Looks like there is plenty of silicone between the bath edge and wall and under the plastic tile trim. The water won't capillary back as the trim has an upstand behind the tile so just take out the loose grout and seal that and it should be fine.

That all makes sense and I can see what you mean RE this preventing leaks beneath the bath, aside form the fact nothing was done with weight in the bath and this might compromise it. But aside from that, would it not be an issue water getting through cracks and into gaps and then not drying out and going manky?

What has happened is that the sealing strip is so well bonded to the bath that its being pulled away from the grout when the bath moves, hense the crack.

"Bonded to the bath" - Where do you mean please? Do you mean where the strip is sitting on the sausage shaped sealant?

With regards to removing grout, how easy or difficult is this?


Many thanks both for sticking me with. I'm going to need to discuss all this with the plumber/tiler next week and the more I understand what has been done vs what should have been done, the better (as well as what needs to be done to put it right!). Cheers.