Supporting Ukraine

[AngleEyes]

yepyepyep...but i imagine the Soviets would've used Cuba as a base for shipping at some point.

They still could, there's no dispute about that.

I'm aware of NATO access to the region but the Crimea becoming a NATO playground is unacceptable to Russians.

It doesn't need to. It could become one of Russia's demands for ending the invasion of Ukraine/Crimea.

It would completely remove their control of the Black Sea and threaten the south, further eroding Russian hegemony and increasing their mistrust of the West who persistently creep closer to Moscow.

Russia does not have control over the Black Sea.

The flagship of Standing NATO Maritime Group 2 entered the Black Sea on Thursday with two more alliance warships set to join the Sea Breeze exercises that started earlier this week, NATO announced.
Frigate ITS Virginio Fasan (F 591) passed through the Bosphorus headed for the Black Sea with a Turkish frigate and will join with a Romanian warship, according to ship spotters in Turkey.
https://news.usni.org/2021/07/01/more-nato-ships-enter-black-sea-while-tensions-with-russia-simmer​

I've included that article because non-Black Sea powers ( i.e NATO), are limited to 21 days in the Black Sea, but Turkey and Romanian (and Bulgarian) are Black sea powers so are not limited to 21 days.

Better negotiation over the last 20 years would've avoided a great deal of bloodshed and destruction.

How could negotiation have prevented the invasion of the Crimea? It was a flagrant breach of Ukraine sovereign territory.
How can you negotiate with a regime that denies it's real intentions? Last Tuesday Russia said it had no intention of invading Ukraine, then last Wednesday it did just that.

 

[Odds]

How could negotiation have prevented the invasion of the Crimea? It was a flagrant breach of Ukraine sovereign territory.
How can you negotiate with a regime that denies it's real intentions? Last Tuesday Russia said it had no intention of invading Ukraine, then last Wednesday it did just that.

You're ignoring Russian perception of the Ukraine region in regard to Crimea. The West has their way of looking at it, Russia has theirs. When negotiation is impossible, war is the outcome and then we see who's perception is more valid.

 

[AngleEyes]

You're ignoring Russian perception of the Ukraine region in regard to Crimea. The West has their way of looking at it, Russia has theirs. When negotiation is impossible, war is the outcome and then we see who's perception is more valid.

Russia should have been negotiating with Ukraine over Crimea, not with the West.
If Ukraine had been satisfied with Crimea going independent, then the West would have accepted that.
It's like the example cited elsewhere, about IoW (except I would have used the Jersey, etc) being mainly French speaking, France would have no logical justification for adopting Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, etc., and invading it. UK would be totally justified in defending the sovereignty of Jersey, etc.

 

[Notch7]

So why has the UK imposed NO sanctions?

why are we slower than the whole of the EU 27

 

[Odds]

Russia should have been negotiating with Ukraine over Crimea, not with the West.
If Ukraine had been satisfied with Crimea going independent, then the West would have accepted that.
It's like the example cited elsewhere, about IoW (except I would have used the Jersey, etc) being mainly French speaking, France would have no logical justification for adopting Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, etc., and invading it. UK would be totally justified in defending the sovereignty of Jersey, etc.

But Russia does not recognise the legitimacy of the government in Kiev so why would they consider negotiating with them?
I don't think they're 'negotiating' with them now: a delegation turns up with demands from their 'Glorious Leader' and Kiev says "nyet".
So, they fight on.

 

[Notch7]

is this why UK is doing nothing:

Tory chairman Ben Elliot's concierge firm has suddenly removed the web page about its Russian business

It comes after scrutiny of its work for billionaire oligarchs close to Putin

Per archived version Quintessentially had 50+ "lifestyle managers" in Moscow helping elite clients

 

[AngleEyes]

But Russia does not recognise the legitimacy of the government in Kiev so why would they consider negotiating with them?

Well there you have it.
Like UK/US etc not recognising the legitimacy of the Iraqi, Libyian government, etc.

 

[The Samaritan]

The Truss woman is on tv and though she is trying to read from a scrit v carefully I still feel her wording sounds as though its a threat.

What we dont want is threats and dram we need behind the scenes sensible talks where no side loses face as Putin will not put up with losing face

Once/if we are through this hopefully the Russian peole will remove Putin, forthwith

stop the war now and move on for the sake of all.

 

[AngleEyes]

So why has the UK imposed NO sanctions?

why are we slower than the whole of the EU 27

Gina Miller has an answer:

Dodgy Russian money has destabilised Britain’s democracy. We have to crack down on it
Gina Miller
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ey-britain-democracy-conservatives-londongrad​

 

[Mottie]

It's like the example cited elsewhere, about IoW (except I would have used the Jersey, etc) being mainly French speaking, France would have no logical justification for adopting Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, etc., and invading it. UK would be totally justified in defending the sovereignty of Jersey, etc.

Mainly French speaking? You having a laugh? We've been to Jersey half a dozen times I can honestly say that I've never heard French spoken there. Road names are in French and one of the 'official' languages is French, but I've never heard it spoken over there.

 

[JohnD]

The West has their way of looking at it, Russia has theirs. When negotiation is impossible, war is the outcome and then we see who's perception is more valid.

That is, of course, untrue.

 

[ellal]

When negotiation is impossible, war is the outcome and then we see who's perception is more valid.

War is the bit between when the talking stops and when it starts again...

Those that do the talking and unleashing death usually survive unscathed, whilst untold numbers die not knowing why!

 

[Vinty]

Crimea was invaded by Putin for no good reason

Why are you getting your knickers in a twist about Crimea?
The people who live in Crimea don't seem to be as upset about being "invaded" as you are.
Crimea was always part of Russia, its was ceded to Crimea only in 1954 for administration purposes only.
It wasn't an issue at the time because Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.
The majority in Crimea are Russian speakers.
So why are you getting offended on their behalf.

 

[Vinty]

Iraq was being run by a brutal dictator.

Lots of countries are run by dictators and the west has no problem doing business with them, so what was the real reason for the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Dork Lard]

Lots of countries are run by dictators and the west has no problem doing business with them, so what was the real reason for the invasion of Iraq.

I will hazard a guess, & say that it was a particularly quiet 'news' period at the time.

And, as we all well know, a good bit of "WAR" sells your MSM far more than what Kate was wearing today.