Dover...

[JBR]

Also, the French stop thousands of immigrants. They just can't stop them all.

Well I'd suggest that we could help 'our friends' across the Channel. We could help them stop the illegal immigrants when they attempt to sail across the Channel.
Rather than wait for the French warships to escort them to the mid-way point, we could turn them around at that point instead of picking them up and bringing them here.
Oh, the objectors complain that that is illegal so we can't do it.
Was it illegal when the Australians did exactly the same and sent them back to Indonesia? Apparently not, because the Australians don't suffer from trendy do-gooders as do we.

 

[ellal]

I‘ve never been fooled into voting for something I don’t want.

Really?

You must be a unique individual...

Can you confirm that every manifesto promise by any party you may have voted for has been carried through?

Are you the political 'missing link'?

As regards brexit I believe you espoused 'leave means leave'?

But it hasn't exactly turned out that way has it...

The person you have been fooled by is yourself!

 

[JohnD]

We need a leader strong enough to walk away from the deal, go for a hard brexit. I'm not sure that Truss is up to the job, although she showed promise on the NI protocol bollux.

you're talking about the deal, and the NI protocol, that Johnson and the brexers agreed to, despite being told it would cause unmanageable problems?

the deal that PM May said no UK PM could agree to?

we already have a hard brexit. What are the features of a harder brexit that you want?

 

[JohnD]

It isn't just right wingers who support Brexit.
Millions of socialists support Brexit.
Why is that.?

of those who voted, almost 52% voted leave, and just over 48% voted remain.

Let's suppose that the proportion did not vary by previous political affiliation, but by other factors.

It was about half each way.

 

[Notch7]

Boris took over and produced his infamous 'oven ready deal' which was based on May's solution. This achieved only BRINO

Unfortunately there never were any better options.

Like most things in life, Brexit is a compromise.

Brexit supporters seem to have this rather strange notion that leaving could be done without any consequences.

 

[Notch7]

It isn't just right wingers who support Brexit.
Millions of socialists support Brexit.
Why is that.?

Because socialists are against the EU completion rules which restrict the ability to nationalise.

The irony is lots of Corbyn socialists voted for Brexit and succeeded by putting into power a hard right populist government….which is intent on having a bonfire of workers right, ability to protest, and privatising the NHS

 

[charliegolf]

All the cards?

Care to expand?

Sarcasm Sparkie, just sarcasm.

 

[JBR]

Unfortunately there never were any better options.

Like most things in life, Brexit is a compromise.

Brexit supporters seem to have this rather strange notion that leaving could be done without any consequences.

Why, then, couldn't we just have walked away?
I realise that if we have had people working in the EU, then we should have to pay for their pensions. OK.
But why did we have to hand over our fish stocks in the North Sea?
Why do we have to continue to follow some of the EU's rules?
Why can't we simply take back Northern Ireland especially as the majority of the people who live there prefer to continue to be a member of the UK?
If they refuse to sell us their products, why should we worry about that, especially since as we buy more from them than they buy from us, it would be to their disadvantage. In addition to that, cars can be bought from other sources: Japan, Korea for example. What's more if, for example, the German car makers lost our market I'm sure they'd have some objections to make to Brussels.
Tell me about the consequences we'd suffer if we had said that we'd walk away and not, like our weak politicians cowering in their offices, just given in to their demands.

 

[IT Minion]

Why, then, couldn't we just have walked away?
I realise that if we have had people working in the EU, then we should have to pay for their pensions. OK.
But why did we have to hand over our fish stocks in the North Sea?

Some of that predated the EU. Plus they'd have taken away our rights in their waters, which is where most of our fishermen actually fish.

Why do we have to continue to follow some of the EU's rules?

If we didn't conform to, for example food regulations then they won't let us sell food there.

Why can't we simply take back Northern Ireland especially as the majority of the people who live there prefer to continue to be a member of the UK?

We never gave it away. The Irish sea border is the least stupid option for managing the island of Ireland.

In addition to that, cars can be bought from other sources: Japan, Korea for example. What's more if, for example, the German car makers lost our market I'm sure they'd have some objections to make to Brussels.

As happy as our fishing industry? Our entertainment industry?

Tell me about the consequences we'd suffer if we had said that we'd walk away and not, like our weak politicians cowering in their offices, just given in to their demands.

That's like asking what would happen if we decided to bulldoze London. Possibly interesting but so ridiculous no one would do it.

 

[JBR]

Some of that predated the EU. Plus they'd have taken away our rights in their waters, which is where most of our fishermen actually fish.

If we didn't conform to, for example food regulations then they won't let us sell food there.

We never gave it away. The Irish sea border is the least stupid option for managing the island of Ireland.

As happy as our fishing industry? Our entertainment industry?

That's like asking what would happen if we decided to bulldoze London. Possibly interesting but so ridiculous no one would do it.

Which waters? Is Norway in the EU? Is Iceland? Which waters then? Half of the Channel?

No problem, we buy more of their food than they buy ours.

Why is the Irish Sea border the 'least stupid' option? How on earth did we manage when the border was a land border on the island of Ireland?

Our fishing industry would be more than happy to get back the areas they had. Even if we ourselves don't want the fish they could supply, it would allow the stocks to replenish themselves rather than the deep net trawlers scooping up everything and anything. Our entertainment industry? Does Europe buy anything we produce? I ask because I don't know, but I'd have thought that we sell more to America and other Anglophone countries.

I don't think I ever suggested bulldozing London, though the state it is in now it might benefit it to do so!

 

[IT Minion]

Why is the Irish Sea border the 'least stupid' option? How on earth did we manage when the border was a land border on the island of Ireland?

Badly.

The Troubles - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JBR]

Badly.

The Troubles - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You must be confusing 'the troubles' with this current problem. They ended long before Boris decided on his Irish Sea idea. If the EU or the Irish are unhappy with a border at the extents of N.I., let them pay to police it.
To be honest, I don't think the Irish people would be bothered about a border - free trade between them and us.
Of course, the EU wouldn't like it which is why Bumbling Boris gave in to them!

 

[ajohn]

Because socialists are against the EU completion rules which restrict the ability to nationalise.

They don't actually.

 

[Vinty]

rules which restrict the ability to nationalise

Do believe that isn't a problem.

 

[ajohn]

Does Europe buy anything we produce? I ask because I don't know,

Why not find out LOL Be careful with the first one Truss posted it The last one is ONS.

New figures released today (20 December 2019) by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show in the twelve months to September 2019 that UK exports to outside the EU grew nearly 5 times as fast as exports to countries inside the bloc.
UK exports to the EU grew by 1.3% and now total £296.8 billion, while exports to non-EU countries saw growth of 6.3% to reach £376.7 billion.
Over the 12-month period, non-EU markets remained the top destination for the UK’s renowned service sector. 60.2% of UK services exports, including financial, travel and transport, go to non-EU markets and are now worth £190.8 billion.

Dec 2021 — The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2020, UK exports to the EU were £251 billion (42% of all UK exports).

13 Jun 2022 — Total exports of goods increased by £2.2 billion (7.4%) in April 2022, with increases in exports to both EU and non-EU countries

1. Main points​

• Total imports of goods, excluding precious metals, increased by £0.4 billion (0.7%) in April 2022 compared with March 2022, because of a £1.1 billion (4.2%) rise in imports from EU countries – while imports from non-EU countries fell by £0.7 billion (2.6%).
• Total exports of goods, excluding precious metals, increased by £2.2 billion (7.4%) in April 2022 compared with March 2022, driven by a £1.2 billion (8.1%) increase in exports to EU countries – while exports to non-EU countries increased by £0.9 billion (6.5%).
• EU exports have increased for the third consecutive month in April 2022 and are at the highest levels since records began.
• The total trade in goods and services deficit, excluding precious metals, widened by £7.1 billion to £24.3 billion in the three months to April 2022 compared with the three months to January 2022.
• The trade in goods deficit, excluding precious metals, widened by £10.3 billion to £61.5 billion in the three months to April 2022 compared with the three months to January 2022, as imports of goods increased by £17.6 billion (13.2%), and exports increased by £7.2 billion (8.8%).
• Early estimates suggest that the trade in services surplus increased by £3.2 billion in the three months to April 2022 compared with the three months to January 2022, reaching £37.2 billion.

Fact is in some ways it's hard to say if Brexit makes much if any difference
Circa ~50% has always gone to the EU.