Do I need fire rated downlighers?

[winston1]

The builders solicitors simply emailed ours asking for an up to date EICR. I don't believe it's part of the contract, so I guess we could refuse.

As I said, trying it on. Remind your solicitor what I have told you. It is conventional that the buyers commission and pay for surveys including electrical ones.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

I think Winston likes to encourage people to be confrontational against their better interests (it's not his problem if it loses the purchase). I would however just say to them that there isn't one (EICR) and see what they say next. Solicitors don't actually know what all these words mean and are just attempting to string out the negotiations for a bigger fee. But if the EICR isn't forthcoming then it is up to them to suggest how to overcome this. The absence doesn't usually affect the purchase going through.

 

[flameport]

It's never going to meet current regulations, but I got the impression that he was pointing out work that needed doing to bring it up the current standards, rather than looking for things that are actually dangerous.

Here's a picture of the consumer unit. All he did was look at it, but right away said it was a fail and needed replacing

An EICR is a report which determines whether the installation complies with the current version of BS7671.
An older install will certainly not comply even if it had been kept in perfect condition, simply because many things in BS7671 will have changed since it was installed.

There isn't any 'fail' or 'pass' - the outcome is whether it's suitable for continued use or not. Stated on the report as Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory.
If items which are dangerous are found it will be Unsatisfactory.
However there can be a large list of items which although do not comply with BS7671 are not dangerous, and in that case the outcome could still be Satisfactory.

The builders solicitors simply emailed ours asking for an up to date EICR.

If that's really what they wanted, then any EICR would do, regardless of whether it found non compliant or even dangerous items. It's just a report on the condition of the installation.

If they wanted one which stated everything was 100% perfect in every way, then they will be disappointed, as there is no way an installation of that age could comply with a version of BS7671 that was created 40+ years after it was installed.

If you are moving out, there is no point in spending any money upgrading that installation. The new owner can do all of that, and that may result in a small reduction in the sale price / part exchange price.

 

[denso13]

As I said, trying it on

You don't know the seller or the builder, you haven't seen the contract and you don't know who the solicitors are. Yet you have decided the builder is at it and the solicitors don't know what they are doing? Amazing...

 

[winston1]

You don't know the seller or the builder, you haven't seen the contract and you don't know who the solicitors are. Yet you have decided the builder is at it and the solicitors don't know what they are doing? Amazing...

Never assume that those who should know what they are doing do.
But the fact remains that in England it is customary for the buyer to commission and pay for surveys for his own protection. It is becoming more common for buyers to try it on and get sellers to provide EICRs. The sellers solicitors just do as they are asked by those paying them whether it is customary or not.

 

[JohnW2]

I think Winston likes to encourage people to be confrontational against their better interests (it's not his problem if it loses the purchase). I would however just say to them that there isn't one (EICR) and see what they say next.

Quite so. The obvious thing to do is simply tell the solicitor that one has no 'up-to-date EICR' and then, as you say, "see what they say next".

If what they "said next" was to ask, or even attempt to 'demand', that the seller arranged (and paid for) an EICR (which I think would be very unlikely), then, unless I were desperate to sell, I would get slightly 'confrontational', albeit pleasantly, in the sense of saying that if they wanted to commission and pay for an EICR, that would be fine by me, and I would make sure that their inspector had the necessary access.

Only if they responded to that by attempting to 'repeat their demand' would I tell them that it was up to them whether they wanted to pursue the purchase, but that there was no way that I was going to pay for an EICR, any more than I would pay for a structural survey, 'Searches' or anything else of that ilk

Kind Regards, John

 

[denso13]

Never assume

Quite...

 

[denso13]

Quite so. The obvious thing to do is simply tell the solicitor that one has no 'up-to-date EICR' and then, as you say, "see what they say next".

If what they "said next" was to ask, or even attempt to 'demand', that the seller arranged (and paid for) an EICR (which I think would be very unlikely), then, unless I were desperate to sell, I would get slightly 'confrontational', albeit pleasantly, in the sense of saying that if they wanted to commission and pay for an EICR, that would be fine by me, and I would make sure that their inspector had the necessary access.

Only if they responded to that by attempting to 'repeat their demand' would I tell them that it was up to them whether they wanted to pursue the purchase, but that there was no way that I was going to pay for an EICR, any more than I would pay for a structural survey, 'Searches' or anything else of that ilk

Kind Regards, John

I don't really disagree with any of that but we don't know the particulars of the part exchange. It is usually done as an easy solution for the seller with the builder holding all the cards. Part exchange deals can have pretty onerous terms, my point being, we don't know what they are, except Winston.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I don't really disagree with any of that but we don't know the particulars of the part exchange. It is usually done as an easy solution for the seller with the builder holding all the cards. Part exchange deals can have pretty onerous terms, my point being, we don't know what they are, except Winston.

And Winston has something in his head about everything. Unfortunately it doesn’t always stay there.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't really disagree with any of that but we don't know the particulars of the part exchange. It is usually done as an easy solution for the seller with the builder holding all the cards. Part exchange deals can have pretty onerous terms, my point being, we don't know what they are, except Winston.

It is true that neither us nor Winston know, 'first hand', the terms of the contract, but the OP seems to think that he does, so I was taking at face value what he wrote, namely ....

The builders solicitors simply emailed ours asking for an up to date EICR. I don't believe it's part of the contract, ...

If there were a contractual requirement for the seller to provide an EICR, then the OP obviously could not get out of it - but, as above, the OP does not seem to think that is the case.

Mind you, if there were such a contractual requirement then, worse' for the seller, I imagine it would probably go further than just requiring an EICR - i.e. to also require any C1s/C2s (and maybe even C3s!) to be remedied before the sale/exchange could take place - so it's definitely a case in which careful reading of the contract would seem to be advisable!

Kind Regards, John

 

[denso13]

Mind you, if there were such a contractual requirement then, worse' for the seller

Possibly, but again, part exchange is usually weighed heavily towards the builder. The builder is taking the risk of having to sell a second hand property. They'll make sure they won't lose out.

 

[JohnW2]

Possibly, but again, part exchange is usually weighed heavily towards the builder. The builder is taking the risk of having to sell a second hand property. They'll make sure they won't lose out.

Quite so - which is why I could understand the contract insisting not only on an up-to-date EICR, but also what was effectively a 'clean' one - i.e. requiring the seller to address all the CIs/C2s (and maybe even C3s) and then provide either evidence that all those had been remedied or a new, 'clean' EICR.

However, if the OP is right that there is not even a mention of EICRs in the contract, then that is probably not the case for this particular transaction.

Kind Regards, John

 

[denso13]

One example,

Part Exchange Scheme Terms and Conditions | Barratt Homes

www.barratthomes.co.uk

"14. A Corgi or Gas safe service certificate will be required on all gas equipment and an electrical testing certificate will be required on all electric equipment within your existing property prior to exchange of contracts to certify they are safe and in a full working condition. You will also be required to provide an Energy Performance Certificate."

 

[denso13]

And another,

Part Exchange | Crest Nicholson

The Part Exchange scheme guarantees a chain free cash buyer for your existing property, so you can focus on moving into your new Crest Nicholson home.

www.crestnicholson.com

"You will need to provide at your cost, prior to exchange of contracts:

• if you have had either a new central heating or new gas boiler installed at the property since 2006, either a CORGI or (if the work was carried out after 1 April 2009) a new Gas safe service certificate
• an electrical testing certificate for all electric equipment within your Existing Home to certify the items are safe and in a full working condition
• an Energy Performance Certificate
• evidence of service (by appropriately qualified personnel) of all central heating systems and gas fires. If you have already had these serviced within the last 6 months, then evidence of this will be sufficient
• if replacement double gazed windows have been installed since April 2002, a FENSA certificate and a copy of the Guarantee"

 

[denso13]

I won't add any more but @winston1 claimed the had never heard of such a contract and that the builder is just trying it on. He seems to be wrong.

Part Exchange Terms & Conditions | Buying Schemes | Wain Homes

The Part Exchange scheme allows you to buy a new home from us while we buy your existing home from you. Read the Part Exchange terms and conditions here.

www.wainhomes.co.uk

"19. A Corgi or Gas Safe service certificate or NICEIC electrical certificate will be required on all gas and electrical equipment within your existing home prior to exchange of contracts to certify it’s safe and in a full working condition."