Deadlock Replacement.

[james_help]

Hi all, I am in a block of flats.

My current flat entrance door is wood (rejected to replace with pvc) and I am using a Deadlocking night latch.

However in the middle I have a 3 lever deadlock that sometimes works (last time was today which resulted in my using WD40 to get the lock to open) - which I am looking to replace, but I can’t find the right replacement. I have gone to screwfix, and what I thought was the replacement was incorrect, as the holes on the door did not match the key entrance on the lock.

Does anyone know where I can buy a like for like? Also Is deadlock the right replacement?

I have attached some pics.

thanks all

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I. Go to a locksmith or an architectural ironmonger. R+TBH it looks like a fairly common or garden ERA/Union type lock, but I'm sure that @JohnD could give you the lock number/make off the top of his head

2. Don't use WD40 on locks ever again. It is a solvent and water dispersant, NOT a lubricant and can cream cracker locks. Graphite is one of the things you use on locks as a "dry lubricant"

 

[Diver Fred]

From your photos it would appear the lock face plate is missing. The door lining is badly abused where the bolt enters and could do with repairing or replacing.
To replace the 'Mortise' (dead) lock you need to know the size : measure the distance from the centre of the Keyhole to the faceplate. (typically 1&3/4 or 2&1/2inch). Unless you know the name it is unlikely to find a lock with matching retaining / screw holes.
For insurance purposes you should fit a 5 lever lock.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The door lining is badly abused where the bolt enters and could do with repairing or replacing.

That door casing is unrepairable. It needs to be replaced. If this was a break-in it needs a Birmingham bar on the back of the door casing when a new one is installed

 

[JohnD]

If you have still got the old lock and key, please post photos of them

Also, please measure (precisely) the width of the old lock case (probably about 2 and a half or 3 inches) and the backset (distance from the front plate to the centre of the keyhole) and the height and thickness of the case and foreend plate.

Old locks will probably measure in inches, to a quarter or eighth inch, modern locks in mm

There is quite a good chance I can identify a match.

BTW when an old lock becomes difficult to operate, it is often because the key has worn out of spec, or is an ill-fitting copy. With a lever lock you can confirm that by trying the key from the other side of the door. When testing unreliable locks, always do it with the door open in case they jam.

 

[JohnD]

@james_help

Also

You say you are in a flat. I observe your door lining has the remains of intumescent strip.

You must have a fire-resistant door. Not a plastic one. They need not be very expensive, starting around £80 before Covid. But they are very heavy (enough for a hernia).

If you are going to paint it a moulded one is fine, you do not need costly veneer. Avoid the fake woodgrain, which looks like fake woograin.

Examples https://www.wickes.co.uk/search?q=fd30+fire+door:price-asc:category:1000659&text=fd30+fire+door#

Fitting a door needs skill, experience and sharp tools, so ask around for a competent local carpenter. Ask what he knows about fire door regulations. The rules change quite often so I can't advise here. There are special hinges (I recommend the lift-off type), smoke strips, and pads for the locks and hinges. As they are very thick and solid, they block sound and are quite good at resisting forced entry, with good locks and a good lining sealed to the wall.

A new door lining to match is little extra cost and will give a much better result.

You can temporarily reinforce your old lining with something like
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/11700/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=kickstop&_sop=15&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

If you can drill holes accurately

But you really need a new one

 

[james_help]

If you have still got the old lock and key, please post photos of them

Also, please measure (precisely) the width of the old lock case (probably about 2 and a half or 3 inches) and the backset (distance from the front plate to the centre of the keyhole) and the height and thickness of the case and foreend plate.

Old locks will probably measure in inches, to a quarter or eighth inch, modern locks in mm

There is quite a good chance I can identify a match.

BTW when an old lock becomes difficult to operate, it is often because the key has worn out of spec, or is an ill-fitting copy. With a lever lock you can confirm that by trying the key from the other side of the door. When testing unreliable locks, always do it with the door open in case they jam.

Hi John, thanks for the detailed comment! the images as requested are attached.

Measures are as follows:
Width of the old lock case: 6cm
Basket: 4cm
Height & Thickness: 8.4cm (h) 1.6cm (thickness)

Noted on the below... it did jam while the door was open but I learnt my lesson the hard way!

The door installed is a fire door, it was a requirement of the managing agent however the installer did not install an intumescent strip (i will chase)

also the Ebay link does not work - can you screenshot the product please?

 

[james_help]

I. Go to a locksmith or an architectural ironmonger. R+TBH it looks like a fairly common or garden ERA/Union type lock, but I'm sure that @JohnD could give you the lock number/make off the top of his head

2. Don't use WD40 on locks ever again. It is a solvent and water dispersant, NOT a lubricant and can cream cracker locks. Graphite is one of the things you use on locks as a "dry lubricant"

Thank you, I panicked and used WD40 as it was the only thing I found and it worked, will note this for nextime

 

[JohnD]

Yes, your key is worn out. Observe the bits are rounding off. It may work better from the inside of the door than the outside because the key has two sets of bits (observe they are always symmetrical).

The dark red paint colour, and the shape of the key, look like a fairly modern ERA 5-lever. Union are also red but a little brighter and the key shape is different. Though your key might not be original.

There are only two rollers in the bolt, so it is not the current standard, but the case size is probably the same.

Does it measure like

ERA Fire Rated Brass Effect BS 5-Lever Mortice Deadlock 64mm Case - 44mm Backset - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. High security lock suitable for external applications, particularly front and back door. 2 keys supplied, includes fixings. Brass effect finish. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Case size 64x89x17mm with 44mm backset? Be precise.

The similar Union is 68x88x16 with 45 so you must be accurate.

Union Fire Rated Brass BS 5-Lever Mortice Deadlock 68mm Case - 45mm Backset - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Steel, BS 5-lever lock is a high security, extremely durable mortice lock for use on wooden doors. Keyhole protection prevents forced entry by picking. Radius inner foreend for ease of installation. Supplied with 2 keys and fixings. FREE next day delivery available...

www.screwfix.com

The modern standard has a bigger bolt so the staple (keep) may need the door lining hole made bigger with a very sharp chisel.

For the reinforcer, go to Ebay, location is UK only, and search "kickstop" and category is home and DIY.

Should be around £10 to £15

To fit them you need to drill accurate holes.

 

[james_help]

Yes, your key is worn out. Observe the bits are rounding off. It may work better from the inside of the door than the outside because the key has two sets of bits (observe they are always symmetrical).

The dark red paint colour, and the shape of the key, look like a fairly modern ERA 5-lever. Union are also red but a little brighter and the key shape is different. Though your key might not be original.

There are only two rollers in the bolt, so it is not the current standard, but the case size is probably the same.

Does it measure like

ERA Fire Rated Brass Effect BS 5-Lever Mortice Deadlock 64mm Case - 44mm Backset - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. High security lock suitable for external applications, particularly front and back door. 2 keys supplied, includes fixings. Brass effect finish. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Case size 64x89x17mm with 44mm backset? Be precise.

The similar Union is 68x88x16 with 45 so you must be accurate.

Union Fire Rated Brass BS 5-Lever Mortice Deadlock 68mm Case - 45mm Backset - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Steel, BS 5-lever lock is a high security, extremely durable mortice lock for use on wooden doors. Keyhole protection prevents forced entry by picking. Radius inner foreend for ease of installation. Supplied with 2 keys and fixings. FREE next day delivery available...

www.screwfix.com

The modern standard has a bigger bolt so the staple (keep) may need the door lining hole made bigger with a very sharp chisel.

For the reinforcer, go to Ebay, location is UK only, and search "kickstop" and category is home and DIY.

Should be around £10 to £15

To fit them you need to drill accurate holes.

John thank you so much! it does measure like the second ERA one, I have reserved and will be picking up shortly I will let you know

Is the kickstop easy to install? also does it do what it says in the name, ie stops someone from kicking the door?

 

[Diver Fred]

Think this what J&K + John nare recommending

Kickstop Birmingham Bar (Long/ Narrow)

Code: 961478" (1980mm) x 5/8" (16mm) solid steel bar - with rounded sides and countersunk screw holesTo Reinforce and Strengthen Wooden Door Frame

www.birminghambar.co.uk

 

[JohnD]

that's a longer one than I had in mind, but it would do the trick.

when you have a front door with both a nightlatch and a deadlock (and use them both), put one at shoulder-height and one at kick-height to spread the load. One third from the top and one-third from the bottom is a good guide.

the rigid metal reinforcer is clamped tightly to the door or frame (the door ones have blind through-bolts) to prevent it splitting or giving way around the locking area. the full length ones seeks to reinforce the full height. though I don't see that it will do any good away from the area of attack.

I put one onto my back garden gate into a lane; it has a 5-lever lock but somebody tried to kick it in the night after I had been staining it; when by bad luck I had unscrewed the lock and keep and just loosely reassembled overnight. Presumably they'd seen me working and hoped there would be tools lying around.

they didn't get in but the kick caused a split, the reinforcer will help strengthen it.

they tend to be cheaper on ebay as I think there was a warehouse clearance sale a while ago (I bought several)

 

[JohnD]

the installer did not install an intumescent strip (i will chase)

the strip is incredibly easy to fit yourself and not expensive. A proper lining will have a groove for it, width varies, measure yours before purchase. Unless the door is a very close fit you can use the strip with smoke seal, which is a sort of furry brush that looks (and works) like draught excluder.

It is self adhesive. Fit it AFTER painting and any trimming needed.

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/search?query=intumescent

For a single door you will need just over 2 strips.

 

[james_help]

that's a longer one than I had in mind, but it would do the trick.

when you have a front door with both a nightlatch and a deadlock (and use them both), put one at shoulder-height and one at kick-height to spread the load. One third from the top and one-third from the bottom is a good guide.

the rigid metal reinforcer is clamped tightly to the door or frame (the door ones have blind through-bolts) to prevent it splitting or giving way around the locking area. the full length ones seeks to reinforce the full height. though I don't see that it will do any good away from the area of attack.

I put one onto my back garden gate into a lane; it has a 5-lever lock but somebody tried to kick it in the night after I had been staining it; when by bad luck I had unscrewed the lock and keep and just loosely reassembled overnight. Presumably they'd seen me working and hoped there would be tools lying around.

they didn't get in but the kick caused a split, the reinforcer will help strengthen it.

they tend to be cheaper on ebay as I think there was a warehouse clearance sale a while ago (I bought several)

Thanks John, I will look into getting the kickstop and also the strip, also both the Era locks you recommended did the job! I am just having trouble with the box striker

 

[JohnD]

yes, the new one will be bigger.

you need a really sharp chisel, to shave away the wood. don't use a hammer or a blunt chisel.

a sharp one will cut it away just with your hand.

about a 3/4" if you need to buy one