The collapse of the UK and left-wing socialism

[MNW67]

I disagree vehemently, despite thanking you for the post. I agree wholeheartedly with your initial comments.
But I think overall, and especially socially, we have become more right wing.
For example, on the migration aspect.
But conversely, on other aspects we have become more left wing or tolerant/empathetic. E.g. homosexuality, homelessness, work-ethic, green technology.

Just because I have mentioned more aspects toward left wing than right wing, does not equate to movement.
Some issues have stronger, higher influence than others, and are often exploited by right wing commentators (including the general public) to push their own agenda.

You make some good points. I found this research interesting.

UK now among most socially liberal of countries | King's College London

There have been huge shifts in attitudes on issues such as homosexuality, casual sex, abortion and more

www.kcl.ac.uk

 

[Vinty]

Why are so many political parties led by millionaires or billionaires these days.
Nigel Farage is a millionaire, maybe being a millionaire these days isn't such a big deal.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Good to see that you can discuss things civilly.

You can't actually define "wokeism" can you? Or rather you can't (or won't) say what YOU mean by it.

If, for example, I think that "woke" means "not abusing and mistreating people due to their colour, ethnicity, race, nationality, sex, orientation or other personal characteristics", and therefore people like HawkEye (and possibly you) who think that we should take a stand against NOT abusing and mistreating people due to their colour, ethnicity, race, nationality, sex, orientation or other personal characteristics, then people like HawkEye (and possibly you), think that abusing and mistreating people due to their colour, ethnicity, race, nationality, sex, orientation or other personal characteristics are admirable things to do

It would be invidious to criticise you for such an appalling ideology if it isn't what YOU mean by "woke".

But if you agree with that definition, can you (will you?) explain just what is wrong with NOT abusing and mistreating people due to their colour, ethnicity, race, nationality, sex, orientation or other personal characteristics?

I had to read that twice, the second time more slowly, in order to understand exactly what you were saying.

An excellent definition of woke. It'll leave those using the word, totally baffled.

Have you tried it as a tongue twister?

Or it would really work as drinking game. Recite it, and if you make a mistake, you pay a forfeit.

 

[Vinty]

Works?

Or could or should work?

They have been royally shafted by it, but because of their endemic prejudices they lap up the lies from parties like Reform about who is to blame.

I think a lot of support for Reform is from ordinary people who are genuinely worried about the future and have been let down by the main parties.
These make them vulnerable to people with ulterior motives.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

You make some good points. I found this research interesting.

UK now among most socially liberal of countries | King's College London

There have been huge shifts in attitudes on issues such as homosexuality, casual sex, abortion and more

www.kcl.ac.uk

That article also demonstrates how far we have still to go.

 

[MNW67]

But if you agree with that definition, can you (will you?) explain just what is wrong with NOT abusing and mistreating people due to their colour, ethnicity, race, nationality, sex, orientation or other personal characteristics?

I don't think anyone objects to those ideals. I would imagine that it is more about things like banning clapping because people might be scared or banning the word brave because it might upset Native Americans.

 

[Notch7]

I don't blame the Tories or Labour for the UK's problems.
I blame the electorate, after all they vote for these parties.

It’s not quite that simple


The electorate gets their information from the media which is controlled by billionaires…..and they have the ability to manipulate the electorate.

The UKs problems are really caused by the very wealthy manipulating politics for their self interest.

Back in the 70s it could be argued it was the Unions that held the power and could manipulate govts.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

I don't think anyone objects to those ideals. I would imagine that it is more about things like banning clapping because people might be scared or banning the word brave because it might upset Native Americans.

Is clapping banned?
Is the use of the word 'brave' banned?

 

[MNW67]

I had to read that twice, the second time more slowly, in order to understand exactly what you were saying.

Indeed. A plague of double negatives.

 

[Notch7]

You make some good points. I found this research interesting.

UK now among most socially liberal of countries | King's College London

There have been huge shifts in attitudes on issues such as homosexuality, casual sex, abortion and more

www.kcl.ac.uk

The U.K. is socially liberal but fiscally Conservative.

Also those looking towards Reform are politically authoritarian

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Indeed. A plague of double negatives.

As a drinking game (and a definition to baffle the users of the word), it works well.

 

[morqthana]

Back in the 70s it could be argued it was the Unions that held the power and could manipulate govts.

And who was arguing that?

Why, it was the very wealthy doing it to manipulate politics for their self interest, and the media seeking to manipulate the electorate.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Some of that is a hoot:

"8% of Baby Boomers said casual sex was justifiable in 2009, compared with 30% by 2022 – although Gen Z (67%) and Millennials (55%) are still far more likely than older cohorts to hold this view."

Gen Z and Millennials are far more likely than older cohorts to have to make a practical choice over whether casual sex was justifiable.

And what is it with "justifiable"?

"Two-thirds (66%) of the British public now say that homosexuality is justifiable".

That's like saying that x% of the British public now say that having brown hair is justifiable, or y% of the British public now say that being left-handed is justifiable.

I agree a very poor choice of words.

Maybe it was designed to be.
If they were repeating the use of words used in earlier polls, in order to make exact comparisons, it's the earlier polls that would have selected words that skew the results.
They could have used words like 'acceptable', 'normal', etc.
Or they could have approached it by forming the question as a negative.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

What do you think?

Of course not. But as MNW67 cited it as an example, I thought he might like to prove that it was.
And his refusal to conform to his version of woke might be justified.

 

[MNW67]

What do you think?

Clapping has been banned at Oxford University.
The word brave was banned at Stanford University.