Bye Bye Gary

[Deleted member 323070]

He should be, he's been at it long enough.

You're getting mixed up with football.
I will admit both get kicked around a lot.

There should be as much discussion on TV about what is really antiSemitism and what is not, as there is about football.

 

[noseall]

He should be, he's been at it long enough.

Are you under the illusion that anyone criticising the cruelty in Gaza are antisemitic?

Are the Jewish folk that are against the cruelty and genocide in Gaza antisemitic?

 

[fillyboy]

Are you under the illusion that anyone criticising the cruelty in Gaza are antisemitic?

No.

 

[MNW67]

So now you are claiming that Zionism as a political movement arose from what, Judaism, Jews, Israel?
I've already pointed out that there were numerous Zionists who were not Jews.
Zionism grew from the persecution experienced by Jews throughout Europe and Russia.
But it's not a religion, it's a political movement or party.
Any religion can join the Zionist movement.
One cannot convert to Zionism. One simply starts to support the political ambitions of Zionists.

What do you believe anti Zionism means these days. Is is still a belief that the State of Israel should not exist. Or is it about, for example, wanting Israel to behave more humanely.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

What do you believe anti Zionism means these days. Is is still a belief that the State of Israel should not exist. Or is it about, for example, wanting Israel to behave more humanely.

Anti Zionism has never been about denying Israel the right to a piece of real estate and a peaceful existence.
It's always been about denying Israel the right to the whole of the Levant.

Israel have, for a long time, occupied parts of Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Now they want the whole of Gaza and the West Bank, and to extend their foothold into Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, which in total comprises the Levant.

 

[noseall]

No.

Do you have any evidence that all the people on this forum you refer to as 'Jew haters', were antisemitic before the atrocities in Gaza?

 

[motorbiking]

you know there is a search facility right?

 

[noseall]

you know there is a search facility right?

I've looked. I can see the opposite is true. Have you looked Billy? I'm not the one making false accusations.

 

[motorbiking]

Anti Zionism has never been about denying Israel the right to a piece of real estate and a peaceful existence.
It's always been about denying Israel the right to the whole of the Levant.

Israel have, for a long time, occupied parts of Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Now they want the whole of Gaza and the West Bank, and to extend their foothold into Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, which in total comprises the Levant.

You seem to want to invent your own special version.

You are free to criticise Isreal its government its policies etc. But when you refer to Zionists as a term of abuse toward Jews, make reference to highly offensive nazi propaganda or justify it or pretend the word Zionist gives you protection from what is obviously anti-jewish racism, you show your racist intent. When you post things to support and spread this hatred on a public forum, you commit an offence.

 

[MNW67]

Anti Zionism has never been about denying Israel the right to a piece of real estate and a peaceful existence.

I think it was originally.

 

[motorbiking]

I've looked. I can see the opposite is true. Have you looked Billy? I'm not the one making false accusations.

I think you dishonestly pretend that is the case.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

you know there is a search facility right?

I think you overestimate the ability of the search function.
It can only show what has been written. It cannot show people's bigotry, unless it's reflected in their posts.
So to search for some nebulous attitude by some unnamed posters in the hope of discovering something, the search facility needs to be replaced with AI.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

I think it was originally.

Have you a link to anything to support your thought?

 

[motorbiking]

‘Zionism’ as a concept remains a valid topic for academic and political debate, both within and outside Israel. The word ‘Zionist’ (or worse, ‘Zio’) as a term of abuse, however, has no place in a civilised society. It has been tarnished by its repeated use in antisemitic and aggressive contexts. Antisemites frequently use the word ‘Zionist’ when they are in fact referring to Jews, whether in Israel or elsewhere. Those claiming to be “anti-Zionist, not antisemitic” should do so in the knowledge that 59% of British Jewish people consider themselves to be Zionists. If these individuals genuinely mean only to criticise the policies of the Government of Israel, and have no intention to offend British Jewish people, they should criticise “the Israeli Government”, and not “Zionists”. For the purposes of criminal or disciplinary investigations, use of the words ‘Zionist’ or ‘Zio’ in an accusatory or abusive context should be considered inflammatory and potentially antisemitic. This should be communicated by the Government and political parties to those responsible for determining whether or not an incident should be regarded as antisemitic.

Response

The Crown Prosecution Service will consider the words ‘Zionist’ or ‘Zio’ for inclusion as part of its current guidance for prosecutors. The guidance covers lessons from practice and reflects on the changing nature of language and terminology in relation to anti-Semitism. As with all terminology, consideration would be given to all the facts and the specific circumstances of its use.

https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-committees/home-affairs/CM9386-Select-Comittee-Response-Antisemitism-in-UK.pdf

 

[Deleted member 323070]

But when you refer to Zionists as a term of abuse toward Jews, make reference to highly offensive nazi propaganda or justify it

Any adopted word that is used as a term of abuse towards Jews is antiSemitism.
But that doesn't encompass all the other words that are used in their true meaning, other wise we wouldn't be able to use an word to discuss anything for fear of being accused of being antiSemitic.

or pretend the word Zionist gives you protection from what is obviously anti-jewish racism, y

Discussing Zionism in its true meaning is not automatically anti Jewish.
Only those that want to stifle debate by any means possible will perceive and misinterpret the use of any word to shout antiSemitism.