Can I add an EV charger for a PHEV to this CU

[EFLImpudence]

Heating water instantaneously on demand is a failed concept.

Apart from convenience which is a major consideration in many aspects of modern life.

What is your view on kettles?

 

[flameport]

Do EV makers produce special versions of their cars for the UK market,

Yes they do, and car manufacturers have always done this for reasons which should be obvious.
Most products are specific to the markets in which they are sold.

in other countries higher charging rates are supported,

Many other countries have 3 phase as standard.

IEC 61851-1 Mode 3 allows 63A single phase.

Good luck with that on a 60A UK domestic supply.

Note, they did say 3.5, which left me with the impression it's more like a portable charger with a 16A blue plug, not a "ChargePoint on the house"

2x 32A EVSEs, which are linked so that the maximum output is 7kW between them.
If only one in use, then it can be 7kW. If both, then 3.5x2 but not necessarily, could just as easily be 2kW and 5kW.

 

[flameport]

What is your view on kettles?

A kettle is not an instantaneous water heater.
If people are bothered by using such things, then boiling water taps exist to avoid filling a kettle.

Apart from convenience

Stored hot water heats up with no user intervention using whatever energy source is most appropriate.
You turn the hot tap on and hot water comes out.
No inconvenience involved.

 

[EFLImpudence]

A kettle is not an instantaneous water heater.

Then neither is your what you are decrying.

If people are bothered by using such things, then boiling water taps exist to avoid filling a kettle.

It appears to be you who is bothered.

Stored hot water heats up with no user intervention using whatever energy source is most appropriate.

...and if not used is wasted.

You turn the hot tap on and hot water comes out.
No inconvenience involved.

Do you mean like a combi-boiler?

 

[flameport]

...and if not used is wasted.

Who are these people that heat up hot water and then go on holiday for a week?
Modern hot water cylinders will keep the water hot for days. Most of the heat loss is from the pipes.

Do you mean like a combi-boiler?

From the end user perspective it's similar if only one outlet is in use and they have a gas supply.
For those properties where more than one hot water outlet will be used and where gas is not available or wanted, a combi boiler is of no use.
Combi boilers are also incompatible with solar, batteries and TOU tariffs which is why they will be going away as well.
They exist primarily because gas is cheap compared to electricity, and certain types exclusively sling in combi boilers because they are highly profitable, not because they are the correct choice. .

 

[Sard]

Sorry but I think this thread has gotten a bit out of hand.

I would be grateful if anyone could advise me whether I can add a 50a RCBO paired with a 10mm2 TE cable to power a 7.3kw EV charger, with the cable routing adjacent to my floor joists in between floor boards and the ceiling below. I appreciate a 32a RCBO and 6mm2 TE cable *could* do the job, but I'd rather oversize for safety. The other two large appliances I have on my CU are an induction hob and double oven, both on dedicated circuits.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I appreciate a 32a RCBO and 6mm2 TE cable *could* do the job, but I'd rather oversize for safety.

32A and 4mm² *could* do the job.

A 50A RCBO will not make it safer -
and 10mm² T&E is just a waste of copper.

 

[Rodders53]

Yes you can. Probably (your Sparky will confirm when inspecting/quoting for the work).

You'd need a true Double Pole switched and Bidirectional type RCBO https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...directional-b-curve-6ka-30ma-type-a-mini-rcbo or the 32 A equivalent.

(The existing ones you have only isolate the Live when 'off'.)

Both MCB rating/type and cable csa should (must?) be specified by the electrician installing and signing off this new circuit (and filing the certifications for you with Building Control). Don't forget DNO notification or approval as well for the EVSE.

My 32A RCBO with a fairly short 6 sq mm T+E cable is working fine; and 32A is what my installer usually fits.

NB Safety: Overheating / fires caused by long duration high loads like the EV are typically due to poor connections - not MCB ratings or cable cross sectional areas.

We insisted on double screw connections on all rewireable plugs and sockets for TV studio lighting use (and BICC made special moulded rubber luminaire cables for us) back in the day. 5kW lamps were common and 10kW lamps too. (This was all long before torque screwdrivers were mandated).

 

[flameport]

but I'd rather oversize for safety.

Oversizing cables does not improve safety. It costs more and makes it more difficult or impossible to terminate the cable into the equipment.
A Cat5e or similar cable will also be required to connect the load monitoring current clamp, and optionally to use for the internet connection.

 

[blup]

The latest vw’w have a phev range approaching 100 miles, even allowing for real time consumption that’s not bad, and no range anxiety for longer journeys

 

[flameport]

If VW slung the engine, transmission, fuel tank and exhaust away, there would be plenty of room for a larger battery, and the same car would do 250+ miles on a charge easily.
It would probably be cheaper than the hybrid effort.

range anxiety

Doesn't exist. There are no places anywhere in Britain where you could be too far away from a charging facility to run out of charge before you got to it.
The only people who run out of charge are the same ones who run out of petrol or diesel - 100% their own fault for not bothering to refuel the vehicle at an appropriate time.

There are now over 6000 locations in the UK which have rapid or ultra rapid chargers, and that number is increasing all the time. Most of those locations have multiple charging devices, and that is just locations with 50kW or above DC charging.
There are another 30000+ locations with AC charging, such as would be used when staying at a place for a few hours.

There are about 8000 petrol stations, that number is declining, and has been declining for years.

 

[robinbanks]

Sorry but I think this thread has gotten a bit out of hand.

It's a thread in Electrics UK; par for the course, and this one is actually reasonably in hand still, IMO!

I'd rather oversize for safety

Safety is the RCBO's job; don't oversize that

and optionally to use for the internet connection.

Particular aversion to using a charger that takes an IoT SIM?

 

[JohnW2]

..... where gas is not available or wanted, a combi boiler is of no use.

People tend to forget about oil combis, of which there are plenty around. There may even be combis which use some other fuel, although I can't think what that's likely to be

 

[morqthana]

You mean like they have more than one 13A socket, or more than one lightbulb?

Seems like a not-unreasonable idea if I'm honest..

But multiple ones OUTSIDE make the house look multiply ugly. And if the only reason is that everything is engineered according to the Flameport Lowest Common Denominator doctrine then that's not acceptable.

It's the behaviour that needs to change if the physics cant

There's no change in physics required, just a change in the attitude that refuses to accept that the physics would allow a different solution for people that want it because they don't think they should be allowed that freedom of choice.

You are playing straight into the hands of all the conspiracy loony EV haters who portray them as tools of future government control of movement.

 

[morqthana]

Yes they do, and car manufacturers have always done this for reasons which should be obvious.
Most products are specific to the markets in which they are sold.

I don't think that any manufacturer would decide to build multiple types of charger and put different types into his products unless he had to.

I do think that any designer who suggested to his bosses that they design different ones for different markets, with all the inventory etc issues, and the production line organisation to ensure the right ones went into the right vehicles, and when asked "why" replied "Just because. Why not?" might soon be seeking fresh challenges elsewhere.

I also think something else, which we'll come to at the end.

Many other countries have 3 phase as standard.

I was talking about single-phase charging. I'm sorry that you weren't able to understand that from the closely following sentence about IEC 61851-1 Mode 3 allowing 63A single phase.

Higher charge rates are available here with 3-phase. Oh, but guess what - that's also limited to Mode 2 by those pesky car manufacturers just gratuitously choosing not to put Mode 3 chargers in the cars they sell here.

Still - you don't think people should have more than a 7kW facility, so that's all that matters, who cares what they might want?

Good luck with that on a 60A UK domestic supply.

Not everybody has only that.

How about, instead of relying on luck, we forbid the availability of any products which not everybody can use?

They apply a massive peaking load to the supply
They are entirely incompatible with solar, hot water storage, battery systems and TOU tariffs,
Impossible to have more than one in a property without non-trivial supply upgrades or switching malarkey to ensure only one can be used at a time.

Combination boilers belong in the same bin.
Heating water instantaneously on demand is a failed concept.

I also think that there is no point whatsover expecting you to engage in a rational discussion on this topic.