New sockets - from which ring?

[flameport]

. I assume they won't need to replace all the wires in the house. I

Unless they are 60+ years old and rubber insulated, the existing wiring is very likely suitable for continued use.

The consumer unit should be replaced - it has a single RCD for all of the sockets which is very far from desirable, adding even more to that will not comply with BS7671, and the RCD is of a type which is not permitted for new circuits.
No RCD for the lighting or other circuits. No surge protection either.
Replace with new consumer unit and RCBOs for all circuits. All existing circuits would need to be inspected and tested, some repairs/alterations might be required.

There is no issue with loading, but having everything on a single RCD is a problem, as many modern electronic items have a certain amount of leakage current by design, and a whole pile of those on a single RCD will result in tripping even when there is no fault.
The other problem is that you don't want every socket in the house going off and disrupting internet, office items and whatever else just because the kettle leaked.


As for the circuits, assuming existing wiring can be used:

upstairs 32A ring (red) cut in half and converted to 2x radials, add additional sockets to those as required.

downstairs (green) ring the same - convert to 2x radials and distribute the new and old sockets on those.

kitchen - retain existing ring, add socket(s) to that if needed.
Whether the boiler is with the kitchen sockets or not changes nothing. As it's already with those then keep it like that unless you want to make a pile of extra work.

Old water heater / immersion not used, but the cable should be left in place for possible future uses.

Cooker circuit and lighting circuits unchanged.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Boilers don’t take a lot of power; you don’t ned to worry about it from the “high load” point of view. Your concern should only be, will I lose the heating and freeze to death if something else fails on that circuit? Personally, I would worry more about the deep freeze in that respect. In both cases, if the appliance has a plug rather than being hard-wired into an FCU you have the option of using an extension lead to connect it temporarily to another circuit, or even to a generator or inverter.

I am looking at a log burner to mitigate the deep freeze so all good there. (Or if Russia gets fed up and EMP's us)

 

[Hobobanobo]

How long have you been in the house and how long do you plan to stay?

1 year now, and 15 years+

 

[martygturner]

First off you can do what you like in your own house, second even though the wiring may be old it can still be perfectly serviceable.

If it was me I would get the wiring checked out to see if its degraded, Isolate the each circuit at the circuit breaker and check for any green goo behind the sockets / switches this is the breakdown of the insulation, you can do that. If there is you are probably looking at a full rewire.

The next bit is a bit trickier, you need to check if the wiring has a high insulation resistance, ie that the wiring has not rotted and allowed electricity to flow between the wires. You could just get a sparky in to do that with a EICR, probably £200, that way you will know if you can use the wiring as is and just look at either extending the rings, pretty easy upstairs, lift the floor boards job. Downstairs, its going to get a bit messy chasing out the walls.

Chasing walls, lifting floor boards, drilling holes in the joist and the diy associated with cleaning it up is a big part of the cost. You can do all of that.

If cash is tight do what you can, which is surprisingly an awful lot... their is no magic to cutting a hole for a back box or chasing out a wall or filling them in with plaster.

As for the wiring up new todays low use items don't really need 32 amp rings, you could just have the rings split and made into radials, getting that consumer unit changed to a full RCBO board, that way only one curcuit goes off if their is a fault.

As for all the drivel about boilers, its not an emergency thats why god invented electric heaters that will get you through a few days.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Yep, I have my fridges and freezers on their own circuit, plus deliberately not on an RCD - that has the advantage that a fault, or isolating other circuits to work on them, doesn't affect them. The disadvantage is, you are unlikely to know if that circuit trips, until it defrosts, so I included an alarm.

What is this 'high load' you are anticipating, in an office? 32amps, is a lot of watts.

ooo I may get a chest freezer on a separate circuit later, that's an idea. thanks.

And when you put the load issue that way, I may be over thinking it. Just tv/s PC, upstairs electronics etc (perhaps a small designated LED set up in an airing cupboard ). I just saw lots of sockets and it looked a lot.
Load wise maybe not so much. I was just surprised to see the boiler go off when I tested which circuit killed which sockets and saw the boiler go with the upstairs circuit.

 

[flameport]

I am looking at a log burner

Please don't.
Expensive to install, use and maintain. Will create vast quantities of toxic pollution both for you, anyone else who lives there and all of the surrounding neighbours.

If you want backup heating for the rare event when the boiler breaks in the winter and can't be repaired for a few days, a few cheap electric plug in heaters will be plenty.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Unless they are 60+ years old and rubber insulated, the existing wiring is very likely suitable for continued use.

The consumer unit should be replaced - it has a single RCD for all of the sockets which is very far from desirable, adding even more to that will not comply with BS7671, and the RCD is of a type which is not permitted for new circuits.
No RCD for the lighting or other circuits. No surge protection either.
Replace with new consumer unit and RCBOs for all circuits. All existing circuits would need to be inspected and tested, some repairs/alterations might be required.

There is no issue with loading, but having everything on a single RCD is a problem, as many modern electronic items have a certain amount of leakage current by design, and a whole pile of those on a single RCD will result in tripping even when there is no fault.
The other problem is that you don't want every socket in the house going off and disrupting internet, office items and whatever else just because the kettle leaked.


As for the circuits, assuming existing wiring can be used:

upstairs 32A ring (red) cut in half and converted to 2x radials, add additional sockets to those as required.

downstairs (green) ring the same - convert to 2x radials and distribute the new and old sockets on those.

kitchen - retain existing ring, add socket(s) to that if needed.
Whether the boiler is with the kitchen sockets or not changes nothing. As it's already with those then keep it like that unless you want to make a pile of extra work.

Old water heater / immersion not used, but the cable should be left in place for possible future uses.

Cooker circuit and lighting circuits unchanged.

Awesome advise thanks I will start planning this ready to show an electrician. Suprised to see you say use radials for sockets. But I suppose apart form phone charges, TV Internet and a vacuum now and again. They wont draw much.
I guess Radials are easy to install too right. Especially if access is limited to take the ring back to CU.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Please don't.
Expensive to install, use and maintain. Will create vast quantities of toxic pollution both for you, anyone else who lives there and all of the surrounding neighbours.

If you want backup heating for the rare event when the boiler breaks in the winter and can't be repaired for a few days, a few cheap electric plug in heaters will be plenty.

My thoughts were, if the power goes, I lose cooking and hot water, not only electricity. So a small burner (Used for emergency and otherwise just as display, would save my neck if the worst happens. I can always heat a pot of water ontop, chuck a spud in etc)
Maybe use once a year at xmas. that sort of thing.

 

[Hobobanobo]

First off you can do what you like in your own house, second even though the wiring may be old it can still be perfectly serviceable.

If it was me I would get the wiring checked out to see if its degraded, Isolate the each circuit at the circuit breaker and check for any green goo behind the sockets / switches this is the breakdown of the insulation, you can do that. If there is you are probably looking at a full rewire.

The next bit is a bit trickier, you need to check if the wiring has a high insulation resistance, ie that the wiring has not rotted and allowed electricity to flow between the wires. You could just get a sparky in to do that with a EICR, probably £200, that way you will know if you can use the wiring as is and just look at either extending the rings, pretty easy upstairs, lift the floor boards job. Downstairs, its going to get a bit messy chasing out the walls.

Chasing walls, lifting floor boards, drilling holes in the joist and the diy associated with cleaning it up is a big part of the cost. You can do all of that.

If cash is tight do what you can, which is surprisingly an awful lot... their is no magic to cutting a hole for a back box or chasing out a wall or filling them in with plaster.

As for the wiring up new todays low use items don't really need 32 amp rings, you could just have the rings split and made into radials, getting that consumer unit changed to a full RCBO board, that way only one curcuit goes off if their is a fault.

As for all the drivel about boilers, its not an emergency thats why god invented electric heaters that will get you through a few days.

Ok thanks, so get someone round to see what's what, and do the dirty work myself, leave it nice and easy for them to re wire a few sections.
Might not be so bad price wise then.
I will be looking at the radial options.
Although they will still need to move my CU to opposite wall which may get tricky for them.

 

[martygturner]

Ok thanks, so get someone round to see what's what, and do the dirty work myself, leave it nice and easy for them to re wire a few sections.
Might not be so bad price wise then.
I will be looking at the radial options.
Although they will still need to move my CU to opposite wall which may get tricky for them.

No it won't, most of the wiring will be going up to the first floor, so if you are prepared to take down a bit of plaster board from the ceiling for the wires to be dragged back to the new location its pretty easy. Wiring can be easily extended. The only issue will be where the meter is and how long is the cable run from it to the new consumer unit.

 

[Murdochcat]

1 year now, and 15 years+

In which case I’d recommend a full rewire now including a new CU with spd and rcbos

Nothing else makes sense.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As for all the drivel about boilers, its not an emergency thats why god invented electric heaters that will get you through a few days.

Loss of heating, and hot water can be an emergency for most people. Better to mitigate it, when it costs so little to do so.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Although they will still need to move my CU to opposite wall which may get tricky for them.

The usual way, is to replace the CU, with one large joint box, and connectors/terminals. The tricky part is the new tails, from the meter, to feed the new CU position.

 

[flameport]

So a small burner (Used for emergency and otherwise just as display, would save my neck if the worst happens.

So would this: https://www.halfords.com/camping/cooking-equipment/halfords-portable-gas-stove-532534.html at a tiny fraction of the cost.

 

[Hobobanobo]

So would this: https://www.halfords.com/camping/cooking-equipment/halfords-portable-gas-stove-532534.html at a tiny fraction of the cost.

Good shout. doesn't quote have the same aesthetics though does it.