Extended loss of grid power, what will happen to my central heating with loss of Wi-Fi?

[morqthana]

Li-ion batteries in the same casing as a gas powered heat exchanger are at significant risk of going into thermal runaway.

Are you saying that there is nowhere inside a boiler casing which is cool enough to not create a significant risk of thermal runaway? Or even just a risk?

 

[bernardgreen]

Are you saying that there is nowhere inside a boiler casing which is cool enough to not create a significant risk of thermal runaway?

Some manufacturers say that their batteries are "safe" when the ambient temperature is between 5 deg C and 30 deg C

 

[JohnW2]

Are you saying that there is nowhere inside a boiler casing which is cool enough to not create a significant risk of thermal runaway? Or even just a risk?

Even if there would be a significant risk, presumably there's no reason why the backup battery would have to be inside the boiler casing is there?

 

[JohnW2]

Some manufacturers say that their batteries are "safe" when the ambient temperature is between 5 deg C and 30 deg C

The ambient temp in UK was well above 30°C for a significant period a couple of years ago- were Li-ion batteries then not 'safe'? ... and what about those countries/places where the temp is above that most of the time?

 

[morqthana]

Some manufacturers say that their batteries are "safe" when the ambient temperature is between 5 deg C and 30 deg C

Understanding Thermal Runaway in Lithium-Ion Batteries - EcoFlow US Blog

Uncover the critical aspects of thermal runaway in lithium-ion batteries, including causes, impacts, and effective prevention methods for safety.

blog.ecoflow.com

 

[morqthana]

Even if there would be a significant risk, presumably there's no reason why the backup battery would have to be inside the boiler casing is there?

No.

It would be neater, but integration with the control systems is more important. And I guess having it outside means you don't need a GasSafe guy to replace/test the batteries.

 

[JohnW2]

No. ... It would be neater, but integration with the control systems is more important. And I guess having it outside means you don't need a GasSafe guy to replace/test the batteries.

Indeed - I almost mentioned that latter point.

 

[ericmark]

Sorry I should have said, I have solar panels, and a 6.4 kWh battery, but the UPS is only to boiler (oil) and freezers, all else fails with a power cut, one spare socket in kitchen so could run an extension lead to keep router going but unless required idea is to reserve the battery for just freezers and central heating, it is set to keep 10% back in case of a power cut, so would depend when we got a power cut.

When I was moving the phone line, I started to wonder if there was any reason why one would need the router in a power cut, I have noted the adverts about telecare, I would think for the system to work it needs extra battery back-up if one goes to fibre, there was a battery built into them to call the call centre if there was a power failure.

I know one should have one phone which is not cordless, but I rely on having a mobile, maybe not best option.

 

[JohnW2]

I know one should have one phone which is not cordless ...

I don't think that will help for much longer, since, as I understand it, it appears that BT is 'phasing out' copper.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

would think for the system to work it needs extra battery back-up if one goes to fibre, there was a battery built into them to call the call centre if there was a power failure.

Those on fibre, loose not only the router's internet access, but use of the landline too, unless the router is battery backed, along with the hub which the router connects to. Copper lines, normally continue to work, if the phone in use is a wired type.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I don't think that will help for much longer, since, as I understand it, it appears that BT is 'phasing out' copper.

I read, copper ends next year.

 

[JohnW2]

I read, copper ends next year.

Yes, I've seen statements like that - but suspect it might be of a same ilk as the historical statements that HS2 construction and smart meter roll-out would be completed a few years ago

 

[morqthana]

Sorry I should have said, I have solar panels, and a 6.4 kWh battery, but the UPS is only to boiler (oil) and freezers, all else fails with a power cut, one spare socket in kitchen so could run an extension lead to keep router going but unless required idea is to reserve the battery for just freezers and central heating, it is set to keep 10% back in case of a power cut, so would depend when we got a power cut.

I'm biased by a London-centric POV, but we have little experience of cuts lasting more than a few hours, so all I would need would be to keep the boiler/CH, router, and some lighting going for that period. And if push came to shove, I could manage without heating. (Would like hot water though). I could manage with quite a small battery for that.

I know one should have one phone which is not cordless, but I rely on having a mobile, maybe not best option.

As others have observed, the analogue phone service, is going away. If you've not been affected yet it won't be long. 2027 is the predicted end date, unless it's pushed back again.

 

[morqthana]

I read, copper ends next year.

Yes, I've seen statements like that - but suspect it might be of a same ilk as the historical statements that HS2 construction and smart meter roll-out would be completed a few years ago

Copper isn't ending - we aren't all going to get free FTTP upgrades.

What's ending is the PSTN service which runs over the copper wires. The ADSL/VDSL/G.fast signals from the cabinet to your house will remain on copper.

But your landline phone will be dead. Except you can plug one into the back of some (all?) broadband modems and use the handset for VoIP calls.

If you have multiple phones in your house you can get adapters which will create a DECT "network" in your house and use them that way, or you can get a cable with a BS 6312 431A plug on one end

and bare wires at the other end - the plug goes into the modem and the wires you connect to your internal phone cabling.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/9738-all-copper-broadband-is-not-switching-off-in-2025 (for 2025 read 2027 - OpenReach pushed it back because too many alarm companies had dragged their feet for too long)

 

[ebee]

Yes my BT line for speech has ended so effectively it is "VOIP" type thingy now.
BT were informing their customers to contact their alarm customers about signalling and those at possible health risk/vulnerable would be given a battery pack to keep the routers going a while or use GSM or buy one of those adapters from them. They did offer one free if you asked for it then any more would cost you.
I might add that one of us tried both of the two different methods of ordering the "limited to one free unit per household" and behold got 2 free units.
So two we can plug in anywhere in a 13A socket in our home and one built into the router anyway.
And of course if you have a mobile phone or three you have another choice.
Just a bit worrying if the local mast goes down or is far away and there is a power cut too though or somebody, deliberate or otherwise, is jamming it. But I suppose comparing with a wired line down puts it in more perspective.

I must admit I am not aware of any motorised valves for heating systems being other any other than mains voltage but it would not surprise me if there are some, especially nowadays with all this tinternet etc.