Lithium powered boat destroyed in Northamptonshire

[bernardgreen]

 

[ericmark]

I can see the reason for fitting solar cells, batteries, etc. But being Eco friendly is not one of them. I have to agree with him there.

We grow trees, we cover up the wood, allow it to compress, then dig up the coal and burn it. Which is no different to growing trees, and burning them without storing first.

Most of the problems are caused by knee-jerk reactions. Which tend to result in using some new wonder product in massive quantities before anyone has had chance to find out if the new wonder product also has problems. And the fast move to new products is often due to government intervention.

There have been new rules, like can no longer put the batteries in the roof space, not because the battery going on fire, but because if something else goes on fire, the batteries stop safe fire fighting.

Lithium cells clearly do have some problems, but as long as treated with some common sense, they can also have a lot of benefits, so either have them very small, so problems are limited, or where it is unlikely to be damaged, and in a narrow boat they are unlikely to be damaged, what one would not do, is fit them to a car, where there is a risk of a crash damaging the battery.

This is why the idea of running cars off North Sea gas was shelved, the tank needed to be kept cool, and at normal temperatures it could not be kept as a liquid, so any damage to the insulation around the tank would mean the pressure relief valve would open releasing flammable gases, I can't see how the problem was any different to using lithium batteries in a car?

We saw governments pushing towards diesel cars, now they are saying they were wrong, but by the time the mistake was realised, we had loads of diesel cars. So be it thalidomide, diesel, asbestos or Teflon coatings, we need to adopt slowly, so if there is a problem we find out before massive harm is done.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Lithium cells clearly do have some problems, but as long as treated with some common sense, they can also have a lot of benefits, so either have them very small, so problems are limited, or where it is unlikely to be damaged, and in a narrow boat they are unlikely to be damaged, what one would not do, is fit them to a car, where there is a risk of a crash damaging the battery.

One video, seemed to be suggesting, or confusing lithium cells, with them maybe being LiPo4 cells, which are supposedly the safer variety.

 

[ericmark]

One video, seemed to be suggesting, or confusing lithium cells, with them maybe being LiPo4 cells, which are supposedly the safer variety.

This is why I just called them Lithium.

 

[morqthana]

Lithium powered boat destroyed in Northamptonshire​

And your point is?

Would you care to report on all the narrowboat fires not caused by lithium batteries? There are lots, after all.

Or do you have a prejudiced narrative you wish to promote, which would not be assisted by such reporting?

PS - I've just done a search for all the posts you've made containing the word 'lithium', and yeah - it looks like you do.

Just take it to one of the forums for the swivel-eyed, please.

 

[Jurassicspark]

Lithium cells clearly do have some problems, but as long as treated with some common sense, they can also have a lot of benefits, so either have them very small, so problems are limited, or where it is unlikely to be damaged, and in a narrow boat they are unlikely to be damaged, what one would not do, is fit them to a car, where there is a risk of a crash damaging the battery.

Haven't watched the video posted above but a lot of the so called "unexplained" fires involving lithium ion batteries could actually be caused by user error or misuse rather than an inherent flaw in the lithium ion batteries itself. One example of a major issue is when people try to jumpstart dead battery packs by connecting them to a fully charged one without understanding how the (BMS) works or checking the cell levels. This lack of knowledge can easily lead to overcharging or overheating putting the battery at risk of failure or even fire. The real problem here isn’t necessarily with lithium ion batteries themselves, but with how people handle them withoutt understanding the correct charging practices or the function of the BMS. Many of these so called "unexplained" fires could be easily prevented if users knew how to properly maintain and monitor the batteries.

One thing I hate and it's severely dangerous is direct charging with a USB lead has minimal current limiting and the charger will often output more than its rated current into them potentially damaging the charger too. It will also keep charging them beyond 4.2V and that poses a genuine risk of internal chemistry damage, potentially resulting in avalanche failure where an internal short circuit occurs.

Properly managed and maintained lithium cells are fine if treated correctly. Comparing power tools to random crap escooter packs that have been flogged to death with poor or no management on them is not a fair comparison

People just don't seem to know what BMS is, what it does and why it's so important...

 

[bernardgreen]

could actually be caused by user error or misus

Most are caused by user error or missuse, the resulting damage is often far greater than the damage caused by abuse of a lead acid battery.

A significant number of lithium fires occur when the battery is neither being charged nor supplying power.

Some lithium batteries self ignite when they are not connected to anything,

 

[Jurassicspark]

Some lithium batteries self ignite when they are not connected to anything,

They indeed do but a lot of people argue that its not the users fault.

I'd like to see what answers they generate from these questions and whether they back up or cease their argument if they still believe its not the users fault or it wasn't the individual(s) that caused the battery to blown up.

Cheap random non tested batteries designed to make a quick short term profit, that I do not know but,

Under what specific conditions can lithium batteries self ignite when not connected to anything?

What internal factors could trigger a self ignitiuon in a lithium battery even as you say if it's disconnected from a device?

Are these incidents more likely to happen with older or defectivce batteries which were supposedly meant to be disposed of?

How does temperature play a role in the self ignition of lithium batteries when idle?

What impact does physical damage or puncturing have on the likelihood of a battery self igniting when not in use?

Does the absence of a (BMS) increase the risk of spontaneous ignition?

How often do self ignition incidents occur under normal storage conditions for eg at room temperature, in a non charged state and in a charged state)?

Can self ignition be prevented by simply following the manufacturers recommended storage and handling guidelines? When I asking these questions it became clear that many of the conditions leading to lithium battery self ignition such as temperature storage and handling rely mostly on the user’s choices. Most of the risks are tied to how the battery is treated rather than an inherent flaw in the technology considering if its as modern lithium batteries are built with safety features that when properly utilized minimize these dangers.

 

[davelx]

I can see the reason for fitting solar cells, batteries, etc. But being Eco friendly is not one of them. I have to agree with him there.

We grow trees, we cover up the wood, allow it to compress, then dig up the coal and burn it. Which is no different to growing trees, and burning them without storing first.

Of course it is! By burning fossil fuels we are taking carbon that has been stored over 1000's of years and releasing it back into the atmosphere over several decades.

 

[endecotp]

By burning fossil fuels we are taking carbon that has been stored over 1000's of years

Not thousands - 300 million years since the carboniferous.

 

[davelx]

300 million is 300 thousand thousands.
How long ago it was is not really the point, is it? It's the rate of sequestration versus the rate of release back into the atmosphere that matters.

 

[morqthana]

Most are caused by user error or missuse, the resulting damage is often far greater than the damage caused by abuse of a lead acid battery.

A significant number of lithium fires occur when the battery is neither being charged nor supplying power.

Some lithium batteries self ignite when they are not connected to anything,

I'd ask you for the statistics of boat fires caused by lithium batteries vs other causes.

But people like you don't deal in facts, do you.

 

[Munroast]

And your point is?

Would you care to report on all the narrowboat fires not caused by lithium batteries? There are lots, after all.

Or do you have a prejudiced narrative you wish to promote, which would not be assisted by such reporting?

PS - I've just done a search for all the posts you've made containing the word 'lithium', and yeah - it looks like you do.

Just take it to one of the forums for the swivel-eyed, please.

you would clearly need to balance that up by how many lithium battery canal barges there are - if there is only one then 100% is not good

They were saying on t news that there may be some good sunsets due to all the smoke in the atmosphere - wonder if there is a connection with all these wildfires and lithium batteries - just saying! could be being hushed up ......

 

[bernardgreen]

I'd ask you for the statistics of boat fires caused by lithium batteries vs other causes.

I would ask you to compare the damage caused by lithium battery fires vs the damage caused by other causes.

 

[morqthana]

you would clearly need to balance that up by how many lithium battery canal barges there are - if there is only one then 100% is not good

That's what I meant about statistics. Like the ones we have for cars, for example, which show that EVs are less likely to catch fire than ICEVs.

wonder if there is a connection with all these wildfires and lithium batteries - just saying! could be being hushed up ......

No.