No I'm referring to Brown Blue Black Red Gn/Y which is I believe the correct sequence, I'll not dispute black and red positions couldbe flipped, it is a version that seems to crop up sometimes, having Bn & Bl and R & Bk it's brilliant for 2off 1ph circuits with a common CPC.
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Barhroom light and switch
- Thread starter shaun1982
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I should hope soThat photo looks very familiar
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"Should be", surely?
Brown ↔ Red
Blue ↔ Black
OK.
I'm curious though about how it came about.
When black & red would have been the colours for N & L in a single-phase circuit, the colours for the other L phases would have been yellow & blue.
When blue & brown became the colours for N & L in a single-phase circuit, the colours for the other L phases would have been black & grey.
Who introduced your Brown Blue Black Red hybrid, and why?
And given that you have to oversleeve black & red anyway, why can't you oversleeve black & grey with no more effort?
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If we're into correcting others
"Should be" Bn,Bk,Grey,Bl,Gn/Y sequence, surely?
No idea, just some I purchased several times from a wholesaler, just one of the range of combinations I've encountered
So what?
How about these?
Not so in the above 2 pictures
How should I know, as it bothers you, next time I'm terminating one I'll try to remember to look if there are any markings and let you know who so you can contact them and find out.
Depends when commissioned possibly red and black? or if appropriate during the switchover no oversleeving required?
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I kept your sequence, and highlighted Red vs Grey without changing positions in the sequence in order to make the comparison as easy to see as possible.
So shouldn't the colours in cables conform to one standard, not a mix, and to the current one, once any transition period is over?
The first imported from a country where their colours were brown & 2 blacks, not brown/black/grey?
Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, or Portugal for instance?
The second IHNI, but obviously cable manufacturers can make any colours they choose.
The fact that there are cables which do not comply with our colour scheme does not mean that our colour scheme doesn't exist, does it.
Was there ever a time when 4C+E cables were "allowed" to have a mix of pre- and post-harmonisation colour schemes in them, or when installers didn't have to pick one or the other and mark cores accordingly?
i.e. if you had a Brown Blue Black Red Gn/Y cable, then in the context of your lighting circuits, where neither blue nor black would ever have been a phase colour was there ever a time when you didn't have to either oversleeve brown & blue with pre-harmonised colours or oversleeve black & red with harmonised?
They always have been, they are two of the "Main" subtractive set of three primary colours.
What colour is a Polar Bear? NO - it is Black (apparently) it is only it`s fur which is "White" (Apparetly actually its fur is translucent which makes it appear white over its black skin, so I am lead to believe!
Do you actually have a point you are attempting to achieve in amongst this blabbering?
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And here we go again, with Sunray trying to start another fight, which if it happens he will try make out was my fault, even though out of the blue, he decided to say that what I'd written was foolish or incoherent, a claim for which I guarantee to everybody he will not be able to present a single reasoned, analytical, justification. In fact, he won't even try. He'll think, once again, that he can have a pop at me and then complain if I stand up for myself.
So lets go back over this.
I posted a fairly long comment including a line correctly describing one particular colour combination of a 3 core cable. Once again you think you know better, quote that line and question it:
My instant reaction is here we go again... However hoping that it was a genuine question, possibly confusion with my colour abreviations? I answer in a perfectly civil way and even spell the colours in full except the CPC:
and assumed it cleared up any confusion despite believing morqthana understood my post.
Believing this is deliberately argumentative I'm still trying hard to answer the questions in an informative manner, despite now believing morqthana is on one of his missions to destroy.
Now I really am thinking here we go again with morgthana aiming to destroy another thread, not only that I looked back over it to see if he is questioning anyone else and come to the conclusion, yet again, it is only questioning me and/or my correct information.
Next came:
and now I've added replies :
I fully accept and appreciate the thought process
That would be great is there one for a 5 core flex? The only BS I have knowledge of clearly shows R,Y,Bl,Bk,Gn/Y and Bn,Bn,Bn,Bl,Gn/Y. I fully accept My knowledge in this matter may be out of date but don't forget cable don't change their colours when the standards change, rather like tigers spots.
What utter rubbish, this is a frequently supplied combination by many british wholesalers and bears appropriate markings
I am aware of such arrangements in some of those countries however it this not supposed to be harmonised across the member states and even our own words indicated something to the effect of standards in other member states are acceptable here
Thank you for admitting cable manufacturers can make any colours they choose, and indeed they do. I have shown 2 variants and described a third. Are you now saying your postulations about a correct colour sequence is wrong?
Which standard are you referring to? You have kindly provided a table showing a selection of acceptable combinations, indicating to me that your previous assersations of only one combination is incorrect and others are permissible.
No one has mentioned 4C&E, why do you now introduce a ficticious product?
Yes of course, one only has to attatch a label along these lines
in which case oversleeving may be moot, especially if the date of assembly is unknown.
The fact of the matter is cables are frequently supplied in the UK with differing colour schemes, the fact that you have only every encountered one does not mean others don't exist or wrong.
So quite frankly I still don't know what you are trying to acheive with your continued disputes with my posts and I stand by my post# 39.
As a matter of interest, if you had an appliance with a perfectly servicable red/black/Gb or Gn-Y cable which required a replacement plug, or for that matter you had to replace a wall switch or socket etc. with red/black wiring, what would you do?
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I'm not going to waste everybody's time by responding to all of your points/claims/allegations individually, but I will pick out a couple of highlights.
YET AGAIN you say I was "blabbering" even though you know you could not, even to save your life, produce a shred of justification.
And this is brilliant:
And yet what do we see in post #35?
Oh look - we see a photo of a 4C+E cable which you posted.
Suffice it to say that your attitude towards me is twisted by your personal animosity, you view everything I write through a thickening red mist, and you seize every opportunity, when I ask you questions and you don't want that, to ascribe malicious intent to me.
That ideas of malicious intent, being on a mission to destroy, arguing purely for the sake of it, occur so readily to you says a lot about you, and nothing about me.
It seems that the only way this will ever stop is if I never respond to you, or ask you questions, ever again.
I don't think that's the way the forum should work, but (particularly as you claim to have their ear) maybe you could get the mods to make it official that you are special, and must not be spoken to.
YET AGAIN you say I was "blabbering" even though you know you could not, even to save your life, produce a shred of justification.
And this is brilliant:
And yet what do we see in post #35?
Oh look - we see a photo of a 4C+E cable which you posted.
Suffice it to say that your attitude towards me is twisted by your personal animosity, you view everything I write through a thickening red mist, and you seize every opportunity, when I ask you questions and you don't want that, to ascribe malicious intent to me.
That ideas of malicious intent, being on a mission to destroy, arguing purely for the sake of it, occur so readily to you says a lot about you, and nothing about me.
It seems that the only way this will ever stop is if I never respond to you, or ask you questions, ever again.
I don't think that's the way the forum should work, but (particularly as you claim to have their ear) maybe you could get the mods to make it official that you are special, and must not be spoken to.
Attachments
First off I make an apology as I made an inaccurate statement
Which I don't believe exists.
There is a product that I have used that falls into the descrition of 4C&E ie it has 4 Cores plus a non insulated Earth conductor.
Image of 4C&E FP200 (or similar fire resistant cables) installation cable:
As you have apparently made no reference to FP200 and in particular as you described what you have purchased as Gn/Y rather than E:
which is also in post#35. They are both 5 core cables and happen to both be constructed with flexible multistranded insulated wires, which I believe shows in the images.
Equally this is also a flexible cable, neither is this described as 4C&E:
I''ll save your effort with a reference to 6193 type cable. So far I have not been able to find a cable described as 4C&E with an insulated earth (CP) conductor other than by yourself.
To clarify unless otherwise stated my intended use of:
4C&E refers to four insulated and one non insulated conductors in a cable, and
5 Core refers to five insulated wires in a cable.
Additionally I believe those are the commonly used meanings in UK.
Which I took to mean a standard T&E style flat cable along the lines of this mock up
There is a product that I have used that falls into the descrition of 4C&E ie it has 4 Cores plus a non insulated Earth conductor.
Image of 4C&E FP200 (or similar fire resistant cables) installation cable:
As you have apparently made no reference to FP200 and in particular as you described what you have purchased as Gn/Y rather than E:
I assume you did not purchase FP200 as it does not fit your description.
For the record- that is not a photo of 4C&E and neither is this
Equally this is also a flexible cable, neither is this described as 4C&E:
I didn't specify it to be flexible cable, however by implication is it is not 4C&E purely by the fact I described it as Gn/Y and not E (or CPC or bare or noninsulated).
I''ll save your effort with a reference to 6193 type cable. So far I have not been able to find a cable described as 4C&E with an insulated earth (CP) conductor other than by yourself.
To clarify unless otherwise stated my intended use of:
4C&E refers to four insulated and one non insulated conductors in a cable, and
5 Core refers to five insulated wires in a cable.
Additionally I believe those are the commonly used meanings in UK.
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