Cost of running dishwasher

[morqthana]

It has been proven by studies (no links available, do your own googling) that when washing more than 8 place settings of crockery/cutlery it is far more economic to use a dishwasher.

That's my understanding too. And in reality it's even worse - it's depressing having dirty crocks accumulate on the draining board, so you tend to do a number of small washes throughout the day, but they still each need a bowlful of water.

We fill and use ours at least once a day. I will sometimes put it on in the evening so I have clean things for the morning.
Although emptying it seems to happen magically in the mornings lol.

I've heard tell of people having two dishwashers, and they never routinely empty them (as in take everything out in one go) - just leave the clean things in there and take them out as and when needed, and after use put them in the other machine to be washed.

 

[cdbe]

We have a hot fill dishwasher (Miele). Fed from a 10mm radial from an unvented cylinder.

The issue for me at the moment is the detergent cost. It has an autodos system where it uses a sealed disc of powder. The cost is ridiculous (50p a go), but I like the system. I've cut a hole in the disc and can fill it with powder - but dishwasher powder is quite rare these days - Sainsbury's do a cheap one but it's crap, I've bought a big box of commercial stuff which is also crap so next I'll try "Sun", which I believe is a premium commercial product. At the moment I'm using the 75° intensive cycle so just as well it's not heating the water much.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I wonder what it costs to run a bowl of hot water to wash up with? If I run a bowl full, that is really two bowls full, as need to run nearly a bowl of cold water before the hot water gets through. So would guess 0.4–0.5 kWh to fill the first bowl with water, the second bowl more like 0.2–0.3 kWh as the pipes now warm, so two bowls required as need to rinse the plates, and in my sink can wash around half the dishes which would fit in the dishwasher, so looking at 1.2–1.6 kWh to handwash the dishes.

Thanks, I've never bothered to compare the costs before, though not quite how I do it...

We always thoroughly rinse, under running cold, before placing the rinsed items in a bowl, in the big section of the sink. Then the hot is run to waste, until it is fully hot - 60C, to fill the bowl, and add detergent. It is then left to soak, and cool until cool enough for hands. I was a large cup first, then put it in the small sink, with cold water dribbling into it, wash cutlery, and stand them in the cup to rinse. Plates etc., are washed, then briefly rinsed under the running cold, then left to drain. They retain some heat, so they quickly dry, in the rack thing.

Also, the handwashing will not be as good as using a dishwasher, as my hands could not stand the chemicals used in a dishwasher.

I once started using Elbow Grease, cheaper than Fairy Liquid, and seemed even more effective. I soon realised, it was attacking the skin of my hands, and so had to revert to Fairy. I struggled to guess/measure the amount of liquid to squirt from the bottle, so now we transfer the liquid to a pump bottle - that saves a lot of wastage, and too may suds.

 

[ericmark]

Surely dishwashers are even less suited to that than washing machines?

Yes, the idea is things like egg, are cleaned off the dishes before they turn into a solid, but we are talking about the USA who do some daft things it seems. Maybe they don't eat eggs over there?

The issue for me at the moment is the detergent cost.

This was the whole subject of the video

it does not really apply to the UK in the main, but it seems enzymes and bleach do not mix, both can be used to help clean dishes, but as a jell, not together.

The other is salt for hard water, it seems most USA dishwashers don't use it. I seem to remember when we got ours, there was a setting procedure, where we had to do a test, and set the dose level.

Well I have crawled on the floor, and got the energy monitor plugged in, but as yet the dishwasher has not run. I normally use a program which takes just over an hour.

That's my understanding too. And in reality it's even worse - it's depressing having dirty crocks accumulate on the draining board, so you tend to do a number of small washes throughout the day, but they still each need a bowlful of water.

This is a very good point, my dishwasher may only run every other day, the drainer is not large enough to have so many dishes on it.

I've heard tell of people having two dishwashers, and they never routinely empty them (as in take everything out in one go) - just leave the clean things in there and take them out as and when needed, and after use put them in the other machine to be washed.

Yes, we have two dishwashers, but that is one for front kitchen, and one for back kitchen, the latter is a smaller one, only have it as inherited and mothers house not enough room for a full size one. The problem with the smaller dishwasher is it still uses a dishwasher tablet same size as the big one, so costs more to use. If the small one fails it will not be replaced, same with the washer/drier in the back kitchen, if it fails it will not be replaced.

The washer/drier good for overalls, so the muck does not transfer to other clothes, but the condenser drier built into the washing machine uses water to cool the condenser, and runs very hot, the condenser drier upstairs uses a refrigeration unit to both heat and cool, so uses less power, does not get the clothes as hot, and does not waste water. Plus can run in tandem with washing machine.

But my attempts to measure energy used have not worked, there are too many variables, I think the heat pump condenser uses less power to the vented machine it replaced, but not comparing like for like, as the vented on 1 kW setting took around 1.5 hours, and the heat pump 2.5 hours, and the vented on 2 kW setting took longer than 45 minutes, so the faster they dry the most power used, so would need a 600 watt vented to compare against.

 

[AndyPRK]

They do eat eggs in USA. Apparently they keep them in the fridge.

 

[morqthana]

Also, the handwashing will not be as good as using a dishwasher, as my hands could not stand the chemicals used in a dishwasher.

I once started using Elbow Grease, cheaper than Fairy Liquid, and seemed even more effective. I soon realised, it was attacking the skin of my hands, and so had to revert to Fairy.

 

[Murdochcat]

Since your PV was a "DIY install by yourself", I feel sure that you would have had the expertise to design and construct it such that it never did (and never could) export to the grid.

Why would I not want to not export my excess energy to the grid? EVERYBODY with PV should be exporting to the grid ......... any electricity production in the UK helps reduce our dependence on despot countries.

Quite why UK governments have decided that NOT to produce our own gas and oil AND import it, needs to be SACKED

 

[JohnW2]

Why would I not want to not export my excess energy to the grid? EVERYBODY with PV should be exporting to the grid ......... any electricity production in the UK helps reduce our dependence on despot countries.

Indeed - as you presumably will have read, that was my suggestion as to one reason why you might want to export 'unwanted' electricity even though you were receiving no payment for it.

 

[aveatry]

I read it as meaning - compared to using hot water from a combi, of gas heated stored cylinder, and doing the washing up in a bowl.

Yes and so did everyone else in the universe who is not stupid.

 

[JohnW2]

We have a hot fill dishwasher (Miele). Fed from a 10mm radial from an unvented cylinder.

As has been said, unless the pipe run is very short and/or the machine uses excessive amounts of hot water, that is likely to be an inefficient system.

The issue for me at the moment is the detergent cost. It has an autodos system where it uses a sealed disc of powder. The cost is ridiculous (50p a go) ...

I suppose that is one price one has to pay for choosing a very unusual machine which doesn't just use standard DW tablets - which generally cost around 20p each.

 

[aveatry]

its just a rip off - we had to pay SP Networks to rubber stamp our application a whopping £550, it literally is day light robbery

we had to wait weeks for them them to do next to nothing, I was able to configure our inverter not to export, did not want my inverter cooking away, wearing itself out lining their greedy bastard pockets

Saving the planet. Feel scammed yet

 

[aveatry]

I once started using Elbow Grease, cheaper than Fairy Liquid, and seemed even more effective. I soon realised, it was attacking the skin of my hands, and so had

Doesn't that stuff have micro plastics in it. ?

 

[Munroast]

I suppose that is one price one has to pay for choosing a very unusual machine which doesn't just use standard DW tablets - which generally cost around 20p each.

and this sums up the nonsense of this thread, worrying about a penny or two for the electric, when the real savings can be made by carefully choosing the dishwater tablet - and may be not even buying salts if you live in a soft water area, (just hiding that red light that says salt is low could save more than the cost of electric)

we don't use salts but an internet search suggests they typically use 1.5kg per month ? £4 for 2kg ? would suggest 10p a wash for something many of us don't even need - thats probably double the amount you pay for the electric

 

[aveatry]

and this sums up the nonsense of this thread, worrying about a penny or two for the electric, when the real savings can be made by carefully choosing the dishwater tablet - and may be not even buying salts if you live in a soft water area, (just hiding that red light that says salt is low could save more than the cost of electric)

we don't use salts but an internet search suggests they typically use 1.5kg per month ? £4 for 2kg ? would suggest 10p a wash for something many of us don't even need - thats probably double the amount you pay for the electric

I had a little litmus paper thing to test the water and then set the salt dispenser accordingly

 

[aveatry]

I had a little litmus paper thing to test the water and then set the salt dispenser accordingly

How about carefully remove them where your heave chair is and replace with laminate only in that section