Flag dynamics

[Ollyfp]

I live in a very small village in North Norfolk. The majority of my neighbours are retirees who have worked hard all their lives. Many of them have flown the Union Jack and/or the flag of St.George for more years than I have lived. They love their country and they are proud to fly our flag.
Referring to these beautiful people as 'thugs' shows a lack of respect that I find hard to stomach.

 

[mattylad]

Out and about today in my local towns I saw flags really high -- too high for a ladder so it must of been a cherry picker that went down the road and put up about 30 union jacks -- it looked like the mall and beautiful.

There is a way, I saw a video about it yesterday.
It involves a fishing rod, an M12 nut tied to the line and some other rope that has been cut around that snaps when pulled.
A M12 bolt was also tied to the bottom of the flag to keep it down.

Took about a minute to do, so a road can be done very quickly.

Harry if you want your flag to fly straight you could always get Heath Robinson with some coat hangers or something similar to make an arm along the top that goes onto rings on the pole.

 

[morqthana]

I live in a very small village in North Norfolk. The majority of my neighbours are retirees who have worked hard all their lives. Many of them have flown the Union Jack and/or the flag of St.George for more years than I have lived. They love their country and they are proud to fly our flag.
Referring to these beautiful people as 'thugs' shows a lack of respect that I find hard to stomach.

And what do they love about it? Do they love the way it is, or do they love the way they think it ought to be?

A elderly population in a rural area. I have not, and would not, brand them "thugs", but a demographic with a propensity to xenophobia/racism/Islamophobia, with a propensity to illiberal social attitudes, and negative feelings towards homosexuals, trans people, mixed race relationships, etc?

It's likely enough not to be discounted. It's likely enough to think that flying those flags might indicate support for, certainly not the methods, but the basic aims of, right-wing groups.

Are they flying those flags to signify their love for how it is, or to indicate a political affiliation? With support for Reform in the North Norfolk constituency at around 30%, with social attitude surveys showing the constituency leaning to the nationalist right and with socially conservative views, I think there is a chance that they are.

"Beautiful" you may find them, but that doesn't mean they don't dislike immigrants, asylum seekers, brown people and Muslims.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Harry if you want your flag to fly straight you could always get Heath Robinson with some coat hangers or something similar to make an arm along the top that goes onto rings on the pole.

Thanks, but I'm happy with it as it is, I was just curious about what seemed to be - the built-in mechanism, which prevented it tangling around the pole.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks, but I'm happy with it as it is, I was just curious about what seemed to be - the built-in mechanism, which prevented it tangling around the pole.

I've just been thinking a bit more about this and, despite having initially thought that rings, or some sort of swivel mechanism, was "the solution, I'm now not so sure ....

.... if the flag is allowed to rotate around the pole (using rings or whatever), when that rotation happens, if the 'rope' used to pull the flag up/down is 'fixed at the bottom, it will try to wrap around the pole, trapping the flag against the pole, won't it? That could be avoided to some extent (but not completely, because of friction etc.) by also having some 'swivel mechanism' at the lower attachment of the rope(s), but I'm not sure I've ever seen that, have you?

As we've discussed, I suspect the reason why (persistent) wrapping seems to happen only rarely is probably due to the facts that gusts of wind usually 'shake out' the winding fairly rapidly.

 

[SUNRAY]

I've just been thinking a bit more about this and, despite having initially thought that rings, or some sort of swivel mechanism, was "the solution, I'm now not so sure ....

.... if the flag is allowed to rotate around the pole (using rings or whatever), when that rotation happens, if the 'rope' used to pull the flag up/down is 'fixed at the bottom, it will try to wrap around the pole,

Indeed as described 194 posts back

trapping the flag against the pole, won't it? That could be avoided to some extent (but not completely, because of friction etc.) by also having some 'swivel mechanism' at the lower attachment of the rope(s),

That is unlikely to work, this system on ebay I have seen the flag wrap differently on the 2 swivels and that doesn't seem to unwrap, I don't know if it would be different on a vertical pole.

but I'm not sure I've ever seen that, have you?

No I haven't

As we've discussed, I suspect the reason why (persistent) wrapping seems to happen only rarely is probably due to the facts that gusts of wind usually 'shake out' the winding fairly rapidly.

I've known my flags be totally wrapped and when the wind drops they don't simply completely drop out, especially if wet. I believe it is more to do with the changing wind.

I'm not sure how it shows in my pics but I have significant trees and chalet style house near my flags (which are 18ft apart) and the turbulance means they often fly in different directions, I was trying to take pics of that for #40 and those 2 pis were taken only moments apart 90º apart, the flag on the silver pole is in opposite directions. The problem doesn't really arise where the wind in predominantly less turbulant such as a wide open space or at the coast.

Many professional poles now have a single rope running up inside the pole, over a pulley on a swivel, usually contained in a ball shaped finial to the flag and a heavy weighted soft loop around the pole hands on the bottom of the flag, this gives an idea of the system:

The finials main purpose is to provide a smooth top for the flag to freely slide over. As seen in my #40 when I added the silver pole having learnt about damaged flags on the red pole. incidently both were erected as a quick botch, I think the silver being for VE day 2020 and remained as done.


Oh and so far not found the bit of cord tying the silver pole to the fence post that went missing last week.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As we've discussed, I suspect the reason why (persistent) wrapping seems to happen only rarely is probably due to the facts that gusts of wind usually 'shake out' the winding fairly rapidly.

I cook dinner, in the kitchen at the rear, ready for Av's return from work on an most evening - that has given me lots of idle opportunity to sit and watch the flag, and its behaviour, through the back window. Yesterday, for instance, it managed to wrap itself twice around the pole, whilst I was watching. It remained wrapped, until the wind eased, then the flag dropped, with more of the material on the side it would need to be blown, to unwrap itself. At the next gust of wind, it unwrapped one turn. Likewise, the next time the wind eased, it unwrapped the second turn.

So the unwrapping, is entirely down to how the flag 'sits', with more material on the side it needs to be blown, to unwrap itself.

The wrapping mechanism, seems to be where the wind simply continues to blow, but gradually rotates its direction, 360 degrees, or more. Good when these things self-sort themselves out - when I heard about the flag swivels, I was thinking I had perhaps made a mistake in not fitting them.

 

[ericmark]

Harry if you want your flag to fly straight you could always get Heath Robinson with some coat hangers or something similar to make an arm along the top that goes onto rings on the pole.

Just like the scarf on the open-top sports car?

 

[JohnW2]

Yesterday, for instance, it managed to wrap itself twice around the pole, whilst I was watching. It remained wrapped, until the wind eased, then the flag dropped, with more of the material on the side it would need to be blown, to unwrap itself. At the next gust of wind, it unwrapped one turn. Likewise, the next time the wind eased, it unwrapped the second turn. ..... So the unwrapping, is entirely down to how the flag 'sits', with more material on the side it needs to be blown, to unwrap itself.

Indeed. I think the unwrapping is probably the result of things being 'shaken about' as a result of variation in the wind ('gusts' and/or 'easings' and/or changes in direction).

The wrapping mechanism, seems to be where the wind simply continues to blow, but gradually rotates its direction, 360 degrees, or more. Good when these things self-sort themselves out - when I heard about the flag swivels, I was thinking I had perhaps made a mistake in not fitting them.

Reflecting further on what I wrote last night, I now suspect that, at least in some situations, the 'swivels'/whatever at the top may make things worse .... if (as may happen if the flag rotates at the top, but the rope is 'fixed' at the bottom), the rope gets wrapped around the flag (even if only slightly), one imagines that could considerably reduce the ability of gusts of wind etc. to 'shake the flag free'??

 

[pete01]

Oops wrong place

 

[SUNRAY]

Reflecting further on what I wrote last night, I now suspect that, at least in some situations, the 'swivels'/whatever at the top may make things worse .... if (as may happen if the flag rotates at the top, but the rope is 'fixed' at the bottom), the rope gets wrapped around the flag (even if only slightly), one imagines that could considerably reduce the ability of gusts of wind etc. to 'shake the flag free'??

No, I find the rope wraps round and unwraps just like the flag with no problem.

 

[JohnW2]

No, I find the rope wraps round and unwraps just like the flag with no problem.

That surprises me, Once the rope has wrapped around the flag, holding it close to the pole, I would have thought that it would become very difficult for any gusts of wind/whatever to 'get any purchase' on the flag.

 

[morqthana]

Just like the scarf on the open-top sports car?

Don't do an Isadora Duncan.

 

[SUNRAY]

That surprises me, Once the rope has wrapped around the flag, holding it close to the pole, I would have thought that it would become very difficult for any gusts of wind/whatever to 'get any purchase' on the flag.

No the flag drags the rope round the pole and will only wrap itself outside the rope. Apologies I didn't read your earlier post correctly.

It's been very gusty here today but hardly any any wrappage to photograph.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Reflecting further on what I wrote last night, I now suspect that, at least in some situations, the 'swivels'/whatever at the top may make things worse .... if (as may happen if the flag rotates at the top, but the rope is 'fixed' at the bottom), the rope gets wrapped around the flag (even if only slightly), one imagines that could considerably reduce the ability of gusts of wind etc. to 'shake the flag free'??

I don't think the swivels are intended to be used with ropes, and I see no reason why they wouldn't work - assuming no ropes, but my observations suggest they are simply not necessary, for a vertical flag pole, and even less necessary for a none-absorbent to moisture, polyester flag.