Flag dynamics

[JohnD]

So you agree its a proxy then - got it.

No, I said I could see how people like you choose to pretend a national flag implies terrorism.

 

[aveatry]

So - let me see if I've got this right. This appears to be the position of a lot of people here.

This is the flag of a recognised state:

View attachment 392889

It is not the flag of a terrorist organisation. It is not part of or the basis of a flag of a terrorist organisation. It is flown by some terrorists.

These are the flags of a recognised state and a component nation:

View attachment 392890 View attachment 392891

They are the flags of, or parts/basis of flags of, violent right wing and proscribed terrorist organisations. They are flown by some violent right wing people and terrorists.

It is not OK for people to fly the first flag, even though it is not the flag of or part of or the basis of a flag of a terrorist organisation, because the fact that it is flown by some terrorists means that any flying of it expresses support for terrorists.

It is OK for people to fly either of the other two flags even though they are the flag of or part of or the basis of the flags of terrorist organisations and violent right wing groups, because the fact that they are flown by terrorists and violent right groups does not mean that any flying of them expresses support for terrorists or violent right wing groups.

I'm struggling to see any logic or consistency, or anything except bigotry, in those positions.

They are the flags of, violent right wing and proscribed terrorist organisations.

Which ones would they be then ?

 

[aveatry]

No, I said I could see how people like you choose to pretend a national flag implies terrorism.

Err -- nope you didn’t

 

[JohnD]

Here, dummy.

Yes, I can see how that might happen.

You'll notice the absence of the word "agree" if you look carefully.

 

[aveatry]

He has totally lost the plot and talking to himself now -- he will probably loose that argument too

 

[SUNRAY]

So - let me see if I've got this right. This appears to be the position of a lot of people here.

This is the flag of a recognised state:

View attachment 392889

It is not the flag of a terrorist organisation. It is not part of or the basis of a flag of a terrorist organisation. It is flown by some terrorists.

These are the flags of a recognised state and a component nation:

View attachment 392890 View attachment 392891

They are the flags of, or parts/basis of flags of, violent right wing and proscribed terrorist organisations. They are flown by some violent right wing people and terrorists.

It is not OK for people to fly the first flag, even though it is not the flag of or part of or the basis of a flag of a terrorist organisation, because the fact that it is flown by some terrorists means that any flying of it expresses support for terrorists.

It is OK for people to fly either of the other two flags even though they are the flag of or part of or the basis of the flags of terrorist organisations and violent right wing groups, because the fact that they are flown by terrorists and violent right groups does not mean that any flying of them expresses support for terrorists or violent right wing groups.

I'm struggling to see any logic or consistency, or anything except bigotry, in those positions.

So let me post a little of my observations:
This is what I remember as the flag of Hamas:

And it took some finding! Oh what a surprise it appears to includein it. Hamas were elected to govern the country around 20 years ago and proudly flown eversince despite being dismissed from government and not re-elected in subsequent elections.

We know the militants now use on their headbands but still fly One only has to watch the news reports of the last couple of years.

On that basis I'd suggest the national flag has been hijacked by terrorists and anyone flying it should be treated as supporting the terrorist group.

Why do you persist in repeatedly denying is being flown by officialy designated terrorists when the rest of the world clearly sees it.

While at the same time you are accusing groups of ordinary people, with a strong opinion, of being terrorists where no government or other official body has designated them so?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[JohnD]

As aveastry says, when a racist, genocidal state such as Israel, commits crimes against humanity, and uses the Israeli flag and the star of David as its symbols, can anyone deny that they are symbols of racism, terrorism and genocide?

He says "anyone flying it should be treated as supporting the terrorist group."

As it happens, I don't agree with him.

But, as I said before, I can see how that might happen.

 

[aveatry]

As aveastry says, when a racist, genocidal state such as Israel, commits crimes against humanity, and uses the Israeli flag and the star of David as its symbols, can anyone deny that they are symbols of racism, terrorism and genocide?

He says "anyone flying it should be treated as supporting the terrorist group."

As it happens, I don't agree with him.

But, as I said before, I can see how that might happen.

Liar. Go on then find those posts where I said that. You do realise that anyone can look through my posts and find out that you are lying.

I see you edited your other post - you have been found out for doing that before as well as lying .

 

[morqthana]

Which ones would they be then ?

Not all current, nor an exhaustive list, but it's instructive to see the decades of consistency

National Front

National Socialist Movement

BNP

British Movement

Combat 18

Patriotic Alternative

English Defence League

 

[morqthana]

Which ones would they be then ?

Red Hand Commando

Red Hand Defenders

Ulster Defence Association

Ulster Freedom Fighters

Ulster Volunteer Force

 

[morqthana]

This is what I remember as the flag of Hamas:View attachment 392897

Ah - because everybody was using the word "terrorism", I thought they were talking about the flag of the military wing.

So basically it's like the UDA/UFF distinction, or not, in terms of intertwined leadership.

Since both of those organisations use the Union Jack in their imagery, I guess we should ban the flying of that, as it's used by terrorist organisations.

After all,

You can't have it both ways.

 

[morqthana]

While at the same time you are accusing groups of ordinary people, with a strong opinion, of being terrorists where no government or other official body has designated them so?

Please show where I have done that.

 

[SUNRAY]

Please show where I have done that.

All the way through this thread, none of the groups/gangs etc are listed as terrorists but YOU are giving them titles, none off them are killing but the people YOU are appearing to support are... Now go and deny it.

 

[morqthana]

All the way through this thread, none of the groups/gangs etc are listed as terrorists but YOU are giving them titles,

Show me where, then. If it's "all the way through" it won't be onerous to quote a few, will it.

none off them are killing but the people YOU are appearing to support are... Now go and deny it.

There seems little to be gained from denying, again, that support for Palestine is the same as support for Hamas, as the only people who think that are anti-Palestine pro-Israel bigots who are impervious to reason.

Is there anything to be gained from asking you if you think that the UN is supporting terrorism? Or countries like Germany, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, Poland? How about Vatican City - is The Pope a terrorist sympathiser?

 

[aveatry]

All the way through this thread, none of the groups/gangs etc are listed as terrorists but YOU are giving them titles,

Show me where, then.

You said this about the Union flag and England flag

They are the flags of, or parts/basis of flags of, violent right wing and proscribed terrorist organisations.