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Moving from Sonos

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I am not an audiophile (as you'll see), neither do I wish to become one.

I currently have 5 or 6 Sonos Ones around the house, plus a sonos soundbar on the telly. I never find myself really using them the way they are meant to be used ie muti-room, and anyway the sound isn't that special to even my untrained ears.

So I'm considering selling them and putting the cash towards a half-decent setup for our 30 sq m lounge, where I'd end up listening to music. The lounge arrangement of chairs means there's no obvious focal point so positioning speakers might be tricky.

We only stream from Spotify and we no longer have CDs.

I'd expect it to be fairly easy to create a simple-to-use system that is pleasing on the Wife-eye, that fills the room with understated sound quality, no matter where you are sitting.

Where do I start?
 
I use a Yamaha CRX-N470D with a pair of shelf speakers. Not spotify though (with DLNA), but it does support it.

The MusicCase app works pretty well IF you have a mesh wifi and or the unit and your phone are close to the router

Or maybe:
 
I am not an audiophile (as you'll see), neither do I wish to become one.

I currently have 5 or 6 Sonos Ones around the house, plus a sonos soundbar on the telly. I never find myself really using them the way they are meant to be used ie muti-room, and anyway the sound isn't that special to even my untrained ears.

So I'm considering selling them and putting the cash towards a half-decent setup for our 30 sq m lounge, where I'd end up listening to music. The lounge arrangement of chairs means there's no obvious focal point so positioning speakers might be tricky.

We only stream from Spotify and we no longer have CDs.

I'd expect it to be fairly easy to create a simple-to-use system that is pleasing on the Wife-eye, that fills the room with understated sound quality, no matter where you are sitting.

Where do I start?

Where you should start is with speakers. You're asking for something that can produce a wide sweet spot. There's one brand that comes to mind instantly for that, and it is KEF.

They put the tweeter in the centre of the mid/bass driver. It's a position that doesn't contribute much to the bass sound, so replacing the dust cap with a tweeter has far more pros than cons. The biggest pro is that the frequency blend between the tweeter and the mid/bass is more coherent, and because of that, there's less of the treble drop-off that you get with conventional stereo speakers. For you, that means being able to sit in a much wider space than the classic 'Hi-Fi' hot spot, and yet still get the benefits of the 3D soundstage that good Hi-Fi speakers can do.

Speaking of pros, you're going to hear a whole load of info that the Sonos Ones haven't been able to reproduce. I'm not just talking about deeper bass. There'll also be stuff in the midrange and the treble that the highly processed active Sonos speakers just struggle with. Even though you're not aiming for the audiophile thing, it's just going to sound better.

Okay. You've had a couple of really strong pros. Here's the catch with any good stereo speakers. If you're playing free Spotify, you're going to hear why it's free. The ability to render more of the info within the music also means they'll show up the holes where stuff is missing. Free Spotify uses 160kbps MP3 as 'best' quality, but it can drop a lot lower too. You should consider a paid premium subscription if you're not already doing that.

I would recommend auditioning KEF R3 Meta (£599 a pair) with the £699 Bluesound Powernode streaming amp. Add speaker stands and cable for a total around the £1550 mark. Sevenoaks Hi-Fi and Richer Sounds carries both brands. They have branches across the UK.

Bluesound is kryptonite to the once invincible Sonos brand. The app is just as easy to use but far less buggy than the current Sonos app. Also, the brand isn't tainted by the debacle over support for older gen gear that Sonos went through a few years ago. The amps are solid and capable of driving a 4 Ohm load - which the KEF speakers are. This sorts the men from the boys. Wiim streamers are good, but their amp technology lets them down.

When you're buying something that relies very heavily on software, then ongoing support should be a priority consideration. There are any number of standalone streamers and streaming amplifiers. A few are from big names (Sonos, Bluesound, Wiim, and maybe Denon). The rest are either smaller companies, or they're companies that make other products but also include some streaming gear too. Naim, Cambridge Audio, KEF, Argon Audio, Technics, etc.

Alternatives.
An all-in-one streaming solution: If it was a smaller room or even just a desktop system, the KEF LSX II LT speakers (£849) combine streaming with the same 'wide sweet spot' tech as the Q3 Metas. However, they'll struggle with the sort of room size you have. Instead, look at the Naim Mu-so Qb (gen 2) £650 or the B&W Zeppelin 2 £499. These are single-point stereo rather than a true stereo pair, but they can each throw quite a wide sound-field.

Cheaper speakers: Nothing pulls off the wide sweet-spot trick like the KEFs, but Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 (£249/pr) come in black, rosewood, and white oak finishes and they are thoroughly decent speakers. They won't dig as deep as the KEF speakers for bass, but they'll still knock spots off the Sonos Ones.

Cheaper streaming amp: To make a worthwhile reduction, you'd have to drop down to the Wiim Amp Pro (£399). The streaming bit of this is petty good. The amp side of things less so. It's okay, but even the forgiving Wharfedale speakers will still let you hear where this Wiim is off the pace.

Streamer + separate amp: Wiim Pro Plus streamer (£220) + some external amp (£???). Honestly, compared to the Bluesound Powernode, you're going to struggle to get anything as good in two separate boxes and still achieve a meaningful saving.
 
I have an old system, reasonable quality, but it sits there unused, as so easy to say hey Google play name of song. We had no intention of using Nest Mini's as our main music system. If we had intended that we would have got the larger version or Alexa.

We can't get VHF radiio so they were got to listen to radio using internet. But set up as stereo in living room, which is a bit useless as we are never in the right place to get the effect.

I can't believe such small speakers do so well.
 
Where you should start is with speakers. You're asking for something that can produce a wide sweet spot. There's one brand that comes to mind instantly for that, and it is KEF.

They put the tweeter in the centre of the mid/bass driver. It's a position that doesn't contribute much to the bass sound, so replacing the dust cap with a tweeter has far more pros than cons. The biggest pro is that the frequency blend between the tweeter and the mid/bass is more coherent, and because of that, there's less of the treble drop-off that you get with conventional stereo speakers. For you, that means being able to sit in a much wider space than the classic 'Hi-Fi' hot spot, and yet still get the benefits of the 3D soundstage that good Hi-Fi speakers can do.

Speaking of pros, you're going to hear a whole load of info that the Sonos Ones haven't been able to reproduce. I'm not just talking about deeper bass. There'll also be stuff in the midrange and the treble that the highly processed active Sonos speakers just struggle with. Even though you're not aiming for the audiophile thing, it's just going to sound better.

Okay. You've had a couple of really strong pros. Here's the catch with any good stereo speakers. If you're playing free Spotify, you're going to hear why it's free. The ability to render more of the info within the music also means they'll show up the holes where stuff is missing. Free Spotify uses 160kbps MP3 as 'best' quality, but it can drop a lot lower too. You should consider a paid premium subscription if you're not already doing that.

I would recommend auditioning KEF R3 Meta (£599 a pair) with the £699 Bluesound Powernode streaming amp. Add speaker stands and cable for a total around the £1550 mark. Sevenoaks Hi-Fi and Richer Sounds carries both brands. They have branches across the UK.

Bluesound is kryptonite to the once invincible Sonos brand. The app is just as easy to use but far less buggy than the current Sonos app. Also, the brand isn't tainted by the debacle over support for older gen gear that Sonos went through a few years ago. The amps are solid and capable of driving a 4 Ohm load - which the KEF speakers are. This sorts the men from the boys. Wiim streamers are good, but their amp technology lets them down.

When you're buying something that relies very heavily on software, then ongoing support should be a priority consideration. There are any number of standalone streamers and streaming amplifiers. A few are from big names (Sonos, Bluesound, Wiim, and maybe Denon). The rest are either smaller companies, or they're companies that make other products but also include some streaming gear too. Naim, Cambridge Audio, KEF, Argon Audio, Technics, etc.

Alternatives.
An all-in-one streaming solution: If it was a smaller room or even just a desktop system, the KEF LSX II LT speakers (£849) combine streaming with the same 'wide sweet spot' tech as the Q3 Metas. However, they'll struggle with the sort of room size you have. Instead, look at the Naim Mu-so Qb (gen 2) £650 or the B&W Zeppelin 2 £499. These are single-point stereo rather than a true stereo pair, but they can each throw quite a wide sound-field.

Cheaper speakers: Nothing pulls off the wide sweet-spot trick like the KEFs, but Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 (£249/pr) come in black, rosewood, and white oak finishes and they are thoroughly decent speakers. They won't dig as deep as the KEF speakers for bass, but they'll still knock spots off the Sonos Ones.

Cheaper streaming amp: To make a worthwhile reduction, you'd have to drop down to the Wiim Amp Pro (£399). The streaming bit of this is petty good. The amp side of things less so. It's okay, but even the forgiving Wharfedale speakers will still let you hear where this Wiim is off the pace.

Streamer + separate amp: Wiim Pro Plus streamer (£220) + some external amp (£???). Honestly, compared to the Bluesound Powernode, you're going to struggle to get anything as good in two separate boxes and still achieve a meaningful saving.
Interesting suggestions. What might be a good cd player to add to the mix ?
 
Interesting suggestions. What might be a good cd player to add to the mix ?
Do you have a lot of physical media to play? More importantly, will you play it?

Having a streaming media player opens up the possibility of playing digital files from your home network. The most sensible solution is a network attached storage drive - a NAS drive - because unlike a PC, it's always on and available. Ripping CDs (including the meta data that carries album, artist, track, genre, cover art etc) means your music is available to play in any mix you want, whether that's playing whole albums or creating some specific play lists.

The NAS drive would live somewhere close to your router, and use an Ethernet connection to it. The PowerNode can connect via Ethernet or Wi-Fi for Internet and home network streaming

The PowerNode has two digital inputs via optical connections in 3.5mm mini-jack form (mini-TOSLINK). If you prefer physical media playback, then all you need is a CD player to act as a transport. Any decoding work gets done by the PowerNode. That does open up the possibility of using a small form factor DVD/Blu-ray player as a transport, but honestly, they suck at playing CDs.

It's not the sound that's the issue. It's the operation of them. With a CD player, you load the disc and press play. It just works. Skipping forward or back between tracks is easy. The display keeps you informed. A DVD/Blu-ray player might start okay, but so often now the front panel lacks the creature comfort of an info display. They're really designed to be used with a TV connected.

If you want to stay with a small form factor player, then the upcoming Tangent CD III @ £199 might fit the bill. There's optical out, a remote, and a display. It launches in January. The width is is 200mm. The PowerNode is 220mm wide.

For a full-sized player with optical out, the Denon DCD200NE is available in black or silver. It has optical out, a remote, front panel display, and it is priced at £260.
 
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Do you have a lot of physical media to play? More importantly, will you play it?

Having a streaming media player opens up the possibility of playing digital files from your home network. The most sensible solution is a network attached storage drive - a NAS drive - because unlike a PC, it's always on and available. Ripping CDs (including the meta data that carries album, artist, track, genre, cover art etc) means your music is available to play in any mix you want, whether that's playing whole albums or creating some specific play lists.

The NAS drive would live somewhere close to your router, and use and Ethernet connection to it. The PowerNode can connect via Ethernet or Wi-Fi for Internet and home network streaming

The PowerNode has two digital inputs via optical connections in 3.5mm mini-jack form (mini-TOSLINK). If you prefer physical media playback, then all you need is a CD player to act as a transport. Any decoding work gets done by the PowerNode. That does open up the possibility of using a small form factor DVD/Blu-ray player as a transport, but honestly, they suck at playing CDs.

It's not the sound that's the issue. It's the operation of them. With a CD player, you load the disc and press play. It just works. Skipping forward or back between tracks is easy. The display keeps you informed. A DVD/Blu-ray player might start okay, but so often now the front panel lacks the creature comfort of an info display. They're really designed to be used with a TV connected.

If you want to stay with a small form factor player, then the upcoming Tangent CD III @ £199 might fit the bill. There's optical out, a remote, and a display. It launches in January. The width is is 200mm. The PowerNode is 220mm wide.

For a full-sized player with optical out, the Denon DCD200NE is available in black or silver. It has optical out, a remote, front panel display, and it is priced at £260.
That's really valuable information Lucid, thanks. I have 250-300 cds, I do add to them from time to time. I've a very old ( 1980s!) Yamaha cd player and a Sony blu ray player at the moment. I'll give the NAS some serious thought.
 
That's really valuable information Lucid, thanks. I have 250-300 cds, I do add to them from time to time. I've a very old ( 1980s!) Yamaha cd player and a Sony blu ray player at the moment. I'll give the NAS some serious thought.
You could always try the Yamaha. The same socket that does for optical doubles up as an analogue input. Stereo RCA to 3.5mm jack plug. Same with the BD player. Compare the two.
 
Not a way to solve the problem, but my hearing is not the greatest, but a £50 wireless set of Sony headphones was the best thing i ever purchased for clarity & sound quality. Usually get 2 days from one charge.
 
Granted I've never listened to a system upwards of £500. But I bought a pair of Tannoy Eclipse floor standing speakers, coupled with an amp my dad gave me from the 1980s, hooked up a Bluetooth receiver that I bought for £12 and got a very good sound. My partner did have multi room Sonos with both a portable speaker and ceiling speakers in the dining room. I was massively underwhelmed by the sound (when it actually worked properly).

Caveat- I do use the paid version of Spotify. All I'm saying is, a decent used amp can be had for under £50. Floor standers £100. It's still IMHO a better sound than what you are used to. Spending £500+ on speakers might be overkill. Everyone will say expensive speakers are better, which they obviously are, but you can't miss what you don't buy in the first place
 
The Sonos play 5 is a very nice speaker for a larger room, I had one but recently inherited a second so set them up as a stereo pair and they sound awesome. I only use spotify and its ample for me.
 

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