Finally, a grown-up government.

[Ivor Windybottom]

You have some proof of that?

It's out there somewhere, it was widely reported in the media around the time of the post-brexit negotations. I can't be bothered to find a link, it was definitely said - one of those rare moments where they said what they actually thought.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

But it's a strong trading power, bloc. Why did we leave ?

Errr... because we were given a choice and the majority decided that was the better option. There are pros and cons all round, democracy is the tool that's used to make a decision. Job done, move on.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

As had May and Johnson at the time.

Ya see the problem with being in a Customs union, is that you submit to all those full members in the customs union making all the rules. Now far be it from me to suggest that our lovely European partners might come up with rules that hurt our ability to do deals outside the union, or simply hurt us for the fun of it, Oh wait, yeah who could resit that opportunity.

We could do it. We'd have an ability to jump ship any time they tried any of those sort of tricks. Hopefully this stalemate would keep the evil EU racketeers behaving themselves.

The bigger problems are that they'd have wanted a ton of money per year from us, for basically doing nothing, i.e. extortion. And that they had a red line that we were not allowed to be better off outside than in, so they had a vindictive attitude towards us, which is definitely not where any sensible negotiations start from.

So, despite our constructive attitude, it quickly became apparent that achieving any sensible compromise wasn't going to happen. So we had to go all-out divorce on them.

We decided to leave, the EU decided it would be a bitter break-up rather than a constructive partnership.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Errr... because we were given a choice and the majority decided that was the better option. There are pros and cons all round, democracy is the tool that's used to make a decision. Job done, move on.

Yes

Labour was voted for.

Suck it up

 

[carmanmemoranda]

We could do it. We'd have an ability to jump ship any time they tried any of those sort of tricks. Hopefully this stalemate would keep the evil EU racketeers behaving themselves.

The bigger problems are that they'd have wanted a ton of money per year from us, for basically doing nothing, i.e. extortion. And that they had a red line that we were not allowed to be better off outside than in, so they had a vindictive attitude towards us, which is definitely not where any sensible negotiations start from.

So, despite our constructive attitude, it quickly became apparent that achieving any sensible compromise wasn't going to happen. So we had to go all-out divorce on them.

We decided to leave, the EU decided it would be a bitter break-up rather than a constructive partnership.

1 sided rubbish.

I'd prefer a more balanced analysis, but it won't come from you will it.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

You don't like the truth. Keep reading the Guardian and imagining that it was all some silly mistake and the EU are gods.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You don't like the truth. Keep reading the Guardian and imagining that it was all some silly mistake and the EU are gods.

1 da ay you might find out where the middle ground is

Til then keep spouting the anti EU bs. We were better off in , than we are out. But don't let the facts bother your bias

 

[Elsa TLC]

Labour are doing more of a job on Migration than the Torys did in years of government.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Labour are doing more of a job on Migration than the Torys did in years of government.

Beginning to sort the issues you mean

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

We were better off in , than we are out.

It's possible. There are a billion variables so who knows.

But... what's you answer? You're PM from tomorrow, what are you going to do?

The EU won't negotiate any sort of sensible compromise, the referendum said we should leave.

I don't hear any constructive answers, just a load of moaning and wanting time to go backwards.

I don't believe there is an option other than making our own way and trading more with countries outside of the EU, beyond where the EU is deliberately making trading as difficult as possible to punish us and act as a deterrent to others thinking of leaving.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Beginning to sort the issues you mean

I'll believe action, not words.

When there are more per day leaving than arriving I'll congratulate them. But it won't happen, it's all a stageshow.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

It's possible. There are a billion variables so who knows.

I think nearly all studies say it's the case

But... what's you answer? You're PM from tomorrow, what are you going to do?

No I'm not. We've left, got to get on with it. But it won't stop me pointing out we shot ourselves in the foot, and people want to blame others for the issue

The EU won't negotiate any sort of sensible compromise, the referendum said we should leave.

Do you blame them? We left.

I don't hear any constructive answers, just a load of moaning and wanting time to go backwards.

I don't hear any tangible benefits. They would prove the point

I don't believe there is an option other than making our own way and trading more with countries outside of the EUU

Yes, but we've made it harder

beyond where the EU is deliberately making trading as difficult as possible to punish us and act as a deterrent to others thinking of leaving.

That's just rubbish

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

No answers then?

Just remoaning.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I'll believe action, not words.

When there are more per day leaving than arriving I'll congratulate them. But it won't happen, it's all a stageshow.

Just compare to what was happening under the Tories.

Nobody was complaining about the issues then. But now it's all Labours fault.

To me it's deeper than that. But it's beginning to be addressed. Just not fast enough.

If I'd seen you complaining about the Tories immigration issues I might have believed you were balanced. But as it is, it's just anti labour rhetoric

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I'll reiterate, the EU (the institution itself) is prepared to make its members suffer by deliberately harming them and us by making trade between us and its members more difficult than it needs to be.

This isn't because it enjoys self-harm, but because it may suffer greater harm if we were to succeed in trading openly with its members, as it would encourage others to join us to seek the same sort of deal.

They've said this, on the record. So there's no point in trying to negotiate with them.