EICR shenanigans five years later...

[dpm_dpmartin]

Five years ago I had the unfortunate luck of finding myself a charlatan Electrician who advised me a rewire was needed on a let property. I created a thread here and I got some help, eventually getting a second EICR done by someone else - that passed - and obtaining a refund from the original Electrician (who clearly had taken a chance, got caught-out and wanted it to go no further).

Since then I've been wary... and made it my business to have more than a passing knowledge (although still very much a layperson) of the possibilities here. I've just had another EICR done on a property built in 2010... exactly five years ago it passed with only a single C3 noted. An Electrician I found via Checkatrade has just been in and has come back saying it needs "loads of remedial work". My spidey-sense started to tingle. He said he would send me a quote across and assumed that I'd want to proceed ASAP to get a PASS.

Before he sent the quote I asked him for some idea of what he'd found out... thinking, if he said something like rewire or new consumer board, I might start to know a bit about where he was coming from - and decide whether I could trust him.

The first C2 he raised was new consumer unit... his justification for that was that it is plastic and doesn't meet 18th edition regulations. I said I disagreed with that coding and, surely, it should be a C3 or, maybe, not coded at all - I said the regulations aren't retrospective for working existing installations. He tried to persuade me they are and that it's not an optional thing for me - at that point I took the decision that I'm unfortunately dealing with a conman again.

So, I'll need another EICR... but I'm thinking some of the remedial issues he identified to me could be things I should act upon. I know - for sure - the last Tenant thought they were handy and have added some sockets to the garage, some externally and they definitely changed over a light fitting in one of the bedrooms. Other stuff I am a bit wary of, because I don't know why they would need changing if they were installed from the property being built and aren't causing any kind of problem. I'd love to get some feedback to educate myself...

He had said:

C2 new consumer unit - this is the red flag to me
C2 change grid switch - I assume this in in the kitchen where you have fridge, washing machine, dishwasher switches in a single panel?
C2 pendant front bedroom - I wonder if the old Tenant just wired it up without any kind of box or something?
C2 fast fix not supported correctly on top floor - I think this is a socket with one of those plastic backboxes with yellow tabs
C2 cables not supported correctly in garage - they go across the rafters / joists diagonally
C2 cables clipped externally - are you supposed to have them in conduit or something?
C2 outdoor sockets damaged - I don't know how, I'd need to check - they worked fine when I checked the new Tenants in six months ago

It's fair to assume things change with age and use, but I find it hard to see how a property goes from nothing noteworthy to a plethora of C2s without skullduggery.

 

[pete01]

C3 for the plastic consumer unit.

Alll the others seem like simple easy fixes.

EICR Myths

electrical.theiet.org

 

[ericmark]

An EICR is an inspectors thoughts on the condition, and there is no requirement for him to use any codes. The codes are to help the person commissioning the report to understand how bad faults are and how fast they need rectifying, the law uses wording like "to determine whether or not that equipment is safe for continued use" and does not refer to C1, C2, C3 or FI, or even EICR, this is what the official guides use, but not the law.

In real terms, due to some items not being readily available for inspections by all electricians, like gas boilers, the inspection likely needs to be done by multiple tradesmen, and in the main as electricians we split the inspection into two, one for the installation, and the other for current using equipment, there are a few exceptions we will normally include lights in the installation.

The landlord law includes any equipment not portable i.e. over 18 kg and not on wheels, or fixed. "“electrical installation” has the meaning given in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010(2); " "“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter; " note or fixed electrical equipment.

So an EICR may use codes like C3 and C2, but it must make it plain in the report what they mean. Let's face it, all electrical installations and equipment is potentially dangerous, so a report for the layman must have some explanation as to why it is considered more potentially dangerous to the rest, and so needs work doing on it.

However since a personal opinion by the inspector, no one can say he is wrong. The problem is, we need documentation that these potentially dangers have been rectified, or a new EICR,

If I take one item at random.

C2 pendant front bedroom - I wonder if the old Tenant just wired it up without any kind of box or something?

The simple answer is you should not be wondering, it should say in plain English what is wrong. And unless it does the report is useless.

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under paragraph (1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

This means you can't change the consumer unit without registering the work with the LABC which would cost too much. But all the rest you can do, if you have enough skill to write out a minors works certificate to cover the work.

If it were me, I would want a reversal on the non flammable consumer unit. And details as to why the rest are C2.

What I am waiting for, is EV charging points to be sited as non-compliant and potentially dangerous. And the argument as to if the installer should correct FOC.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Thank you both, sadly, as the Electrician got angry with me, he isn't talking to me any more. So the boat I'm left in is that I currently have what I have... unless he calms down and comes back to me. I know that I need a new EICR, likely after some of the simple remedial options have been completed - then it's a slam-dunk. As it stands, I am certainly wondering what is wrong with the pendant light in the front bedroom, but only he can tell me.

He has created a giant waste of time for me through his opportunistic, and unscrupulous, greediness.

It's obvious his anger arose from me questioning the big ticket item - the new consumer board. It's the catch that he was fishing for. I am now probably the one that got away in his view. Can I report him to NAPIT? Is it worth it? Is him saying the consumer board is a C2, then digging-in, somehow fraudulent? Or will there always be some kind of get out clause for him? I fear for any pensioner-type who invites him into their home.

 

[Murdochcat]

Sadly I don’t think you’ll get very far with NAPIT

NAPIT contributed to the best practice guide No 4 yet their own publication code breakers offers different suggested codes

Forget this spark and find somebody local via word of mouth is my advice

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Sadly I don’t think you’ll get very far with NAPIT

Thank you; I feared as much... during the argument he even suggested I contact NAPIT myself to confirm his coding. May have been bravado on his part, but I had that feeling it wouldn't end up anywhere morally just.

It stinks that some Electricians are still playing this game of using EICRs as an open-door for expensive work. It stinks that I've come across two in my time.

 

[Murdochcat]

Thank you; I feared as much... during the argument he even suggested I contact NAPIT myself to confirm his coding. May have been bravado on his part, but I had that feeling it wouldn't end up anywhere morally just.

It stinks that some Electricians are still playing this game of using EICRs as an open-door for expensive work. It stinks that I've come across two in my time.

How big is your property? How many cu’s and circuits and how much did you pay for the EICR?

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

It's a three bedroom semi-detached. One consumer unit and the EICR was £120 - I am in Barnsley, so don't be shocked if you're down South. The going rate is between £120 and £180.

I have just learned more directly from the Tenant, she says the lads were both very nice and polite and told her things needed doing - something about the RCDs of which there are two. I was speaking to her on the phone, so she didn't remember that much at all really. I bet it's to do with Type AC RCDs being present in the consumer unit (just like they are in my own home). My understanding is that Type A RCDs are necessary if you have something like solar or an EV charger... but is isn't mandatory to update them on an existing installation. I may be all wrong and eat humble-pie.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Oh, and I haven't paid yet as I haven't got the EICR. I just had a heads-up as to what he'd quote me for... it went downhill from there. I don't know if he'll send it or if he will even push for payment now. I haven't a clue.

 

[pete01]

A C3 is recommending something be improved, so for an electrician it's a bit of an arśe covering code....

It wouldn't be a bad thing to act on it but on the other hand not many (if any at all) plastic consumer units burst into flames.

 

[Old Salt]

Oh, and I haven't paid yet as I haven't got the EICR. I just had a heads-up as to what he'd quote me for... it went downhill from there. I don't know if he'll send it or if he will even push for payment now. I haven't a clue.

He probably wont send the EICR until he’s received payment. Can you use the same guy who did it last time? As a landlord you need to find someone you trust and stick with them.

 

[Murdochcat]

2 people on site for an EICR which cost £120

They are after remedial works 100%

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

2 people on site for an EICR which cost £120

They are after remedial works 100%

Of course, before the Tenant reported her vibes back to me, I wasn't aware there were two people on-site - but that makes perfect sense. Ah, well - even if the EICR is paid-for, and they don't remain quiet about it (as they have to this point) they'll not be getting any remediation work. Genuine or fabricated. I'm already aiming to have a discussion with a father of another kid at my daughter's school - hoping the tenuous connection will count for something.

The guy I trust from five years ago seems to have now retired... but he only did one EICR anyway, the second opinion one on the property where an Electrician initially told me it assuredly needed a rewire. It's a real minefield out there. I can only imagine the scale of this.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

A C3 is recommending something be improved, so for an electrician it's a bit of an arśe covering code....

It's not any C3 I would be worried about. Even many of the C2s appear legitimate to me - it's the big one of new consumer board I am having trouble with. Something about RCDs and solar panels (which the property doesn't have) - relayed by the Tenant from a side-chat... maybe because potentially sometime in a future where I may have the desire to install solar? I genuinely dunno.

I've read up on type AC and type A RCDs... I can't see that the type AC RCDs (as I say, present in my own home) would need ripping out as part of an EICR. Unless you were doing other work, like installing new circuits, or... installing a new consumer board. I thought the whole idea of the regulations was that they weren't retrospective and didn't apply to existing, working and safe, installations. Sure, improvements can be made - but isn't that a never-ending road?

 

[Murdochcat]

I’m now retired as a spark and I used to tell people, before I did their EICR, that they were under no obligation to use me for remedials AND if they weren’t happy with my report seek a 2nd opinion or read the Best Practice guide no 4 - think it’s now issue 7