I don't normally listen to the lyrics, rather I absorb/enjoy the 'beat' of a record. I've just read the lyrics, and yes, it could be interpreted that way.
Ginger men who now identifies as a woman.
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I don't normally listen to the lyrics, rather I absorb/enjoy the 'beat' of a record. I've just read the lyrics, and yes, it could be interpreted that way.
The Kinks co-founder and guitarist Dave Davies hit back at Moby after the US electronic musician said that he could no longer listen to the band’s 1970 hit Lola on the grounds that he found it “gross and transphobic”.
Davies responded on X: “I am highly insulted that Moby would accuse my brother” – Kinks songwriter Ray Davies – “of being ‘unevolved’ or transphobic in any way.” In another post, he continued: “I don’t wanna show the guy up, but Moby should be careful what he says.”
He also shared a letter from trans punk icon Jayne County, who he said wrote to him and his brother to express her delight over the song: “Of course, when I first heard the name Lola, it conjured up memories of Marlene Dietrich standing on a stage in a crowded, smokey room singing one of her most famous songs, ‘Lola!’ From the 1930 film The Blue Angel,” County wrote.
Davies responded on X: “I am highly insulted that Moby would accuse my brother” – Kinks songwriter Ray Davies – “of being ‘unevolved’ or transphobic in any way.” In another post, he continued: “I don’t wanna show the guy up, but Moby should be careful what he says.”
He also shared a letter from trans punk icon Jayne County, who he said wrote to him and his brother to express her delight over the song: “Of course, when I first heard the name Lola, it conjured up memories of Marlene Dietrich standing on a stage in a crowded, smokey room singing one of her most famous songs, ‘Lola!’ From the 1930 film The Blue Angel,” County wrote.
Personally, I went right off Joe Dolce when he told everybody to "Shaddap you face". Rude. Just rude.
Very, very unlikely.
People are jumping on the bandwagon. Boyish girls and girlish boys. They've always been around, everyone accepted the concept of a "tomboy", all was fine. It was often just perfectly normal insecurity or a phase they'll get through. Now they're being told they need treatment to correct their horrible abnormality.
Today's version of Diversity is intolerance. If you don't fit the mould of your gender then you have to be modified to comply with some narrow new definition of normality. It's all really damaging.
That's disappointing from Moby.
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I'm sure Ivor has based his opinion on some research into the issue.
I don't think he'd give such a loaded opinion without that research.
I hope he'll allow me to help him out:
The phrase "intersex" only started to be used in the late 20'teens. (2017-2018)
But it was much earlier than that that surgery was used to correct "Genital anomalies".
"German geneticist Richard Goldschmidt coined the term "intersex" in 1917, replacing older, stigmatized terms like hermaphrodite, with clinical "normalization" surgeries becoming standard in the 1950s. "
The History of Intersexuality: The Emergence and Control of Intersexuality in Medical Discourse
Many writers have looked upon instances of intersexual births as problems for the binary model that they have identified in western understanding of sex and gender. This paper challenges that interpretation of intersexuality, recognising the place of the concept in an exclusivist taxonomy...
publications.essex.ac.uk
Of course, if intersex conditions did not exist there would have been no need for any "normalising" surgery at all.
Before about 2000 the term Hermaphrodite or similar was used:
"The term "hermaphrodite" is considered inaccurate and stigmatizing for humans, as no human is completely both male and female."
True Hermaphrodite: A Case Report - PMC
True hermaphrodite is one of the rarest variety of disorders of sexual differentiation (DSD) and represents only 5% cases of all. A 3-year-old child presented with left sided undescended testis and penoscrotal hypospadias. Chordee correction was ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
But hermaphrodites existed way back in distant history.
"Ardhanarishvara, an androgynous composite form of male deity Shiva and female deity Parvati, originated in Kushan culture as far back as the first century CE. A statue depicting Ardhanarishvara is included in India's Meenakshi Temple; this statue clearly shows both male and female bodily elements."
Intersex people in history - Wikipedia
Intersex conditions existed in all societies:
"In traditional Jewish culture, intersex individuals were either androgynos or tumtum and took on different gender roles, sometimes conforming to men's, sometimes to women's."
Intersex people in history - Wikipedia
In one study it concluded that Intersex conditions affect about 0.02 - 0.05% of the population.
DISORDERS OF SEX DEVELOPMENT - PMC
Normal sex development depends on the precise spatio-temporal sequence and coordination of mutually antagonistic activating and repressing factors. These factors regulate the commitment of the unipotential gonad into the binary pathways governing ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Intersex: What Is Intersex, Intersex Surgery
Being intersex means having anatomy that doesn’t fit into a male/female sex binary. Most intersex people are healthy and surgery isn’t necessary.
my.clevelandclinic.org
This casts doubt on the original .02-.05% findings.
The American statistics applied to the UK would be about 140,000 people.
So not so "Very, very unlikely".
In fact, it's likely that there are far more than several hundred thousand intersex people, and well into the millions globally.
In comparison, the number of people who recorded their identity as Cornish in the 2021 Census is about 110,000 people.
So there are quite a few more intersex people in the UK than there are people who identify as Cornish.
But intersex medical recognition is still in its infancy. There will be many more older people who have lived with the intersex condition all their lives, and undergone "normalising" surgery but ended up with the incorrect sex being recorded.
So they changed gender.
Ah OK, it wasn't stated but I assumed we were talking about the UK. It would be a pretty big number globally.
If we accept the 0.2%, then we're dealing with a lot of invasion of the rights of women, who make up more than 50% of the population. 1 in 2 are having their rights impinged upon to accommodate 1 in 500.
But we all know that those who demand this that and everything are not intersex anyway, they're usually a bloke in a dress with a mental illness, possibly as a result of some well-meaning carey sharey type telling him he's a woman trapped in the wrong body.
If we accept the 0.2%, then we're dealing with a lot of invasion of the rights of women, who make up more than 50% of the population. 1 in 2 are having their rights impinged upon to accommodate 1 in 500.
But we all know that those who demand this that and everything are not intersex anyway, they're usually a bloke in a dress with a mental illness, possibly as a result of some well-meaning carey sharey type telling him he's a woman trapped in the wrong body.
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Now that you are aware of the existence of intersex, and the numbers involved perhaps we can have an intelligent discussion.
Oh no, I assumed too precipitously.
But let us continue on the assumption that you are an intelligent thinking person who can deal with various hypotheses.
The real problem isn't that intersex occurs and more frequently than most are prepared to admit, it's just that society has not evolved (or even "revolved") to accommodate them.
Let me draw an analogy. and I'm talking about many western societies. and even autocratic dictatorial countries:
Suppose Labour (or Conservatives) have not evolved to deal with a third, fourth or more political party, so they deny they exist. They might even go to court to have these other parties declared illegal, because they cannot accommodate them (politically).
That is what society is doing. They cannot accommodate intersex people, either politically, conceptually, economically, or religiously, so they deny they exist and even design the legal system to exclude them.
It first became a legal requirement to register births as Male or Female in 1837, and even before that registration was legally required.
Suppose society really was egalitarian and could accommodate intersex people?
For sure some additional toilet, changing, prison, hospital, etc places would be needed. Some laws would need addressing.
For sure sexual perverts would still exist, and just like criminals anywhere and everywhere will seek weaknesses in the legal systems, just like voyeurs, exhibitionists, abusers, rapists, etc do already.
But sod that, it would be too expensive, too controversial, to accommodate intersex people, let's continue to exclude them, deny they exist, use pseudoscientific arguments, and legislate to make their "disappearance" legal.
And we'll continue with the "normalising" surgical procedures, the mental health problems created and the legal limbo experienced by hundreds of thousands of people, and the bigotry and stigmatisation associated with intersex and transexuals.
Is that really the kind of society we want?
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Any chance of a summary? I couldn't find a point in anything you stated.
Should a bloke with a beard wearing a dress go into womens changing rooms?
Should a bloke with a beard wearing a dress go into womens changing rooms?
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That's OK if you can't follow an academic discussion, but don't use bigotry as an excuse. Don't expect me to make up for your laziness.
Don't expect me to be drawn into your bigoted approach to sensible discussions.
Morqthana's comment is so applicable.
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@Ivor Windybottom
You really should read this article.
It explains how the registry of births was brought into being mainly by the CofE, through the House of Lords, from a financial gain perspective.
It's obviously going to be weighted with a religious narrative, from a bygone era.
For 50 years after the passing of the Act, it underwent many opposing arguments, and much ignoring of the Act by other religions.
When it was passed it was an error strewn Act, and it still is. But no governing party has, or has had, the courage to approach it.
The clerical representation in the House of Lords probably has a lot to do with that.
You really should read this article.
It explains how the registry of births was brought into being mainly by the CofE, through the House of Lords, from a financial gain perspective.
It's obviously going to be weighted with a religious narrative, from a bygone era.
For 50 years after the passing of the Act, it underwent many opposing arguments, and much ignoring of the Act by other religions.
When it was passed it was an error strewn Act, and it still is. But no governing party has, or has had, the courage to approach it.
The clerical representation in the House of Lords probably has a lot to do with that.
'That is what society is doing. They cannot accommodate intersex people, either politically, conceptually, economically, or religiously, so they deny they exist and even design the legal system to exclude them.'
"Suppose society really was egalitarian and could accommodate intersex people?"
Why ginger men?
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
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