Possibly a Building Regs Question about Plinth Heaters??

[XrayDave]

As the thread title says, this is possibly a Building Regs Question about Plinth Heaters.

I find them very effective.

I'd like one in my bathroom (away from the bath, sink, shower and w.c. obviously.

Can one be fitted in a bathroom or is it a big 'no-no' (I suspect I already know the answer)!

Happy to have it connected via a Fused Connection Unit (FCH) rather than a 13A plug and
fitted inside a vanity unit.

Cheers

XRD

 

[flameport]

Yes, they can be installed in a bathroom.

away from the bath, sink, shower and w.c. obviously.

600mm from bath and shower.

Other items are unrelated. Diagrams that show otherwise are wrong and always have been.

 

[ladygaga]

As the thread title says, this is possibly a Building Regs Question about Plinth Heaters.

I find them very effective.

I'd like one in my bathroom (away from the bath, sink, shower and w.c. obviously.

Can one be fitted in a bathroom or is it a big 'no-no' (I suspect I already know the answer)!

Happy to have it connected via a Fused Connection Unit (FCH) rather than a 13A plug and
fitted inside a vanity unit.

Cheers

XRD Slope

Yes, it can be done, but only if the plinth heater is specifically rated for bathroom installation and complies with the bathroom electrical zones under Part P.
In my experience, the biggest mistake is people fitting standard kitchen plinth heaters in bathrooms where humidity and condensation were never considered in the design.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, it can be done, but only if the plinth heater is specifically rated for bathroom installation ....

Are there actually any that say that they are 'rated for bathroom installation'?

... and complies with the bathroom electrical zones under Part P.

To be compliant with BS7671, it wuld have to comply with what that says about 'bathroom electrical zones'. However, as you probably know, Part P of the Building Regs (indeed, the Building Regs as a whole) says absolutely nothing about such zones.

 

[ebee]

Yes, they can be installed in a bathroom.


600mm from bath and shower.

Other items are unrelated. Diagrams that show otherwise are wrong and always have been.

Just to add, you still need to avoid splashes of water getting into the fan heater itself but that is almost always taken care of by the design of the fan heater itself and the vanity unit.

In other words if you were just adding a bog standard fan heater itself you`d have to ensure you mount it in such a way that water is not likely to enter it and allow decent air flow to it and from it.

"Other items are unrelated. Diagrams that show otherwise are wrong and always have been."
yes indeed, that appears to be initiated originally by someone misunderstanding the regs, making a diagram and then everyone copying it, therefore the myth about a zone around a hand basin which does not exist but that myth was born and became folklore.

 

[flameport]

initiated originally by someone misunderstanding the regs, making a diagram and then everyone copying it

Not exactly.

The LIA created a document for their members (mostly lighting manufacturers) suggesting that certain types of lighting should be IPX4 when installed in certain places in bathrooms.
It was created after the 2008 changes to BS7671, the most relevant of which removed Zone 3 and therefore meant items previously stated as being suitable 'outside the zones' could now be installed closer to the bath.

This document clearly stated it was a 'cautionary measure ... beyond the scope of the regs' mainly related to the risk of incandescent lamps exploding when water was splashed on them.
The intent being that manufacturers would make lighting that was at least IPX4 when it was being sold as suitable for bathrooms, and that instructions for lighting would state that lighting installed in bathrooms should be at least IPX4.

There was no suggestion that this diagram should be included in the instructions or published anywhere else. However someone(s) (probably from a lighting manufacturer) decided that this diagram was actually the BS7671 version and made other diagrams similar to it claiming it was 'the regs' and then hoards of people decided to copy and paste it everywhere including making their own modifications without checking what it was or even if the content was correct. Now we have 1000s of versions all over the place, the vast majority of which are totally wrong.

The guidance not intended for publication oir including in any other documents / instructions:

What was supposed to be put into end user instructions for bathroom lighting:

 

[ebee]

Thanks Flameport

 

[XrayDave]

An interesting and informative post @flameport, but how does this relate to a plinth heater as the document is talking about lighting (or more specifically, halogen bulbs)?

Also, your typed post talks about Zone 3 but there is no Zone 3 indicated on the diagrams (unless it is the 'Outside Zones' portion)??

I'm also assuming (because you haven't said in your post) that 'LIA' is the Lighting Industry Association??

Zaph

 

[ebee]

As an aside, ref the zones, the height of zone one and therefore zone 2 is purely from fininshed floor level but if the bath is mounted on a box then I think most of us would accept the place where the bath feet rest to effectively become the new finished floor level. But what size are presumed to be a standard for an ordinary bath? If someone produced a bath with 2,3 or 10 times the legth of the feet to the floor should we now modify dimensions of the heights of zones to take into account the height above fixed floor level? I did ask the IET (IEE at the time) and received a few sentences which roughly translated to "don`t worry about it!"

 

[flameport]

but how does this relate to a plinth heater as the document

It mostlly doesnt. Just an explanation of how all the totally wrong diagrams were created.

All that really matters is that the heater is more than 600mm from the edge of the bath or shower.

 

[JohnW2]

As an aside, ref the zones, the height of zone one and therefore zone 2 is purely from fininshed floor level but if the bath is mounted on a box then I think most of us would accept the place where the bath feet rest to effectively become the new finished floor level. But what size are presumed to be a standard for an ordinary bath? If someone produced a bath with 2,3 or 10 times the legth of the feet to the floor should we now modify dimensions of the heights of zones to take into account the height above fixed floor level? I did ask the IET (IEE at the time) and received a few sentences which roughly translated to "don`t worry about it!"

I think it's probably another example of a reg which has not been properly 'thought through'. It is surely the case that what matters is the distance from the surface on which people may be standing?

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some baths which are, for some reason, 'elevated' well above where they would be if sitting on the 'finished floor level', but I do know of one shower tray which, for whatever reason, is 'two steps up' (hence probably about 400 mm) from the finished floor level. In that case, '2.25m above FFL' would be less than 1.85m above what people in the shower would be standing on - and hence, I imagine, 'easily touchable'!

 

[XrayDave]

It mostlly doesnt. Just an explanation of how all the totally wrong diagrams were created.

All that really matters is that the heater is more than 600mm from the edge of the bath or shower.

Ahh ... okay.

I couldn't see the link between light fittings and plinth heaters but now I understand - thank you : )

XRD