Have you checked how much end bearing there is
Cracks under Steel Beam
- Thread starter billm
- Start date
If it were me, I would be getting an independent SE out to check it. Then, go from there...
No, I'm not there until tomorrow. I'll see if I can measure it from behind off steps and will measure the full length of the beam as well. But that is only of use when we get to see the calcs and check if it complies with the SE drawings.
Any ideas how much that would cost, the job is in Manchester area ?
Sorry, no idea....but it's what I would do. Got to think long term, peace of mind.
Have you spoken to the builder about it all?
An SE can likely prove that what is there, will work with some remedial repairs - beam end bearing included. Bear in mind that 100mm end bearing is the benchmark minimum.
There is carelessness and a poor understanding of loadings, that need addressing and rectifying. I don’t see massive drama there.
I'll be that bloke who you stop and ask for directions and I'd answer "You don't want to start from here". I really don't understand how you allowed this chain of events to get from having a structural engineer's plan agreed by BC, to having an obvious cowboy chuck it up however he feels like doing it.
Someone needs to blow a whistle, get everyone off-site and have it all looked at, before he gets the chance to slap a load of render over it all.
The entire reason for a padstone's existence is to spread a point load across a wider area. If you stick it on edge then it's not a padstone, you may as well not bother.
It needs someone independent, with qualifications and therefore authority, who knows what they're talking about to look at it and decide on a course of action.
Someone needs to blow a whistle, get everyone off-site and have it all looked at, before he gets the chance to slap a load of render over it all.
The entire reason for a padstone's existence is to spread a point load across a wider area. If you stick it on edge then it's not a padstone, you may as well not bother.
It needs someone independent, with qualifications and therefore authority, who knows what they're talking about to look at it and decide on a course of action.
The costs would be paid for by the builder if there is a problem.
If you are not satisfied with the builder or his explanations, then normally you would both agree to get the opinion of an independent third party, and then the cost of that and any remedial work is borne by the builder if he is at fault, or the client if there turns out to be no issues.
But bear in mind is that there is opinion (subjective), and verifiable facts (objective) and be sure what you are getting from any third party.
Not strictly true. Large padstones with heavy loads may be twice the size of the load area.
No. The whole point is not to spread the load, but to prevent local bearing stress shearing the wall directly below the beam.
Why don't lintels require padstones?
Update: My son instructed BC not to do any any inspections unless my son approved it. That was to stop the builder trying to blag one through and getting it passed without us knowing which as commented would have put us in a difficult position.
So today BC came out and had a good look. I was there as well, the builder was notified but didn't attend.
We expressed concerns about the cracked blocks, the size & orientation of the pad stones, the previous cracks now remedied, the size of the bearings etc etc.
We are happy with his response. He stated he is not an engineer but it didn't look right and he spotted a crack in the middle of the bean we hadn't notice before.
He said the best way was for him to email my son his concerns and ask for the SE diags / calcs. He has not received any calcs for the job.
He confirmed that as the builder used his own SE then the builder is responsible for the design not my son.
He suggested asking the builder to get his SE on site to inspect and state what the builder has done complies with his SE plans. And we take it from there. Chances are what the builder has built is not the same as what his SE designed. So it's between them to fight it out.
I measured the bearings before he came
Steel 1 is 10.5m long and has a 100mm bearing at one end (the one that cracked and he repaired) and 150mm bearing at the other end that hasn't cracked so far. That to me is way too short, 200mm at least
Steel 2: 8.5m long 200mm bearing at one end on a flat padstone with no visible cracks, and 150 on a flat padstone but a half concrete block under it which has cracked. I suspect it needed 2 flat blocks under the padstone so it's an easy fix
We feel a lot better after that visit. I think the builder is twitching as he's msg my sons partner 3x today asking how the BC went. He doesn't speak to my son now since the relationship went pear shaped when items were pointed out, so he liaises via his partner
So BC are on our side, they will not sign it off as it is so that is positive.
So today BC came out and had a good look. I was there as well, the builder was notified but didn't attend.
We expressed concerns about the cracked blocks, the size & orientation of the pad stones, the previous cracks now remedied, the size of the bearings etc etc.
We are happy with his response. He stated he is not an engineer but it didn't look right and he spotted a crack in the middle of the bean we hadn't notice before.
He said the best way was for him to email my son his concerns and ask for the SE diags / calcs. He has not received any calcs for the job.
He confirmed that as the builder used his own SE then the builder is responsible for the design not my son.
He suggested asking the builder to get his SE on site to inspect and state what the builder has done complies with his SE plans. And we take it from there. Chances are what the builder has built is not the same as what his SE designed. So it's between them to fight it out.
I measured the bearings before he came
Steel 1 is 10.5m long and has a 100mm bearing at one end (the one that cracked and he repaired) and 150mm bearing at the other end that hasn't cracked so far. That to me is way too short, 200mm at least
Steel 2: 8.5m long 200mm bearing at one end on a flat padstone with no visible cracks, and 150 on a flat padstone but a half concrete block under it which has cracked. I suspect it needed 2 flat blocks under the padstone so it's an easy fix
We feel a lot better after that visit. I think the builder is twitching as he's msg my sons partner 3x today asking how the BC went. He doesn't speak to my son now since the relationship went pear shaped when items were pointed out, so he liaises via his partner
So BC are on our side, they will not sign it off as it is so that is positive.
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Exactly. The builder has shot himself in the foot, because he has no get-out. By using his own SE, he's changed a build-contract with no design risk because that was initially done by others, to a D&B without making any allowance for the risks and liabilities. More to the point, who is now the "principal designer" under the BSA and is going to sign-off the completion? The builder, I'm sure, doesn't realise (yet) what a mess he has caused. Your son, however should never have allowed the design to be moved away from his own team.
Dare I ask, is there actually a formal contract in play here? how this plays out should be determined by what the contract says, but I have a nasty feeling it's just a quote and acceptance without any agreed Ts & cs.
Some builders have a habit of disappearing when faced with problems they have caused. Let's hope he admits his mistakes and rectifies them asap.
Because the local bearing stress does not need to be reduced to an acceptable level by using padstones at a guess?
NHBC state minimum of 100mm but at the end of the day actual bearing should be confirmed by load calculations
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