Ring final spurred off from a JB to each socket

[bhm1712]

My house is a late sixties house and is in need of rewiring - but I’m just wondering if there is any reason that in the sixties an electrician would wire the socket circuit as a ring final but then for each socket outlet, instead of going into the socket and back out, they wired the ring final to a junction box and then spurred off in a single 2.5mm to the sockets? I have found this on all of the downstairs socket circuit. Just seems odd. It looks to be original as the twin and earth is of the same white insulated green goo type.

Thanks

 

[Rodders53]

Well it would save a small amount of cable but add the cost of the JBs... And there are ways of inserting a JB on an existing cable to permit that without cutting the ring wires (but with no earth sleeving)... if, say, one wasn't sure about where to place the sockets 'til later.

Perhaps.

60s and 70s copper prices were high... The goo is well known about https://electrical.theiet.org/wirin...domestic-installation-some-possible-problems/

 

[flameport]

they wired the ring final to a junction box and then spurred off in a single 2.5mm to the sockets?

It was a style which was used at the time.

 

[ericmark]

I did a cheese factory that way, the reason was to reduce volt drop. Due to the fridge having high walls and the volt drop going up/down the walls, but in a normal house one would have not expected it to be big enough to need it.

 

[Murdochcat]

Definitely a 50’s or 60’s style coupled with hiding the junction boxes in very inaccessible places.

A PITA

 

[morqthana]

My house is a late sixties house and is in need of rewiring - but I’m just wondering if there is any reason that in the sixties an electrician would wire the socket circuit as a ring final but then for each socket outlet, instead of going into the socket and back out, they wired the ring final to a junction box and then spurred off in a single 2.5mm to the sockets? I have found this on all of the downstairs socket circuit.

Solid floor downstairs?

 

[securespark]

I've worked with many mid-century installations over the decades.

Admittedly only a scant handful of 1940s wired properties, with lead-sheathed cable, fitted with clamps round the sheath and metal junction boxes, also with clamps.

Then 1950s installations, with rubber and more junction boxes.

But the 60s, there seemed to be an explosion of junction boxes, especially in power circuits.

The biggest mystery to me regarding junction boxes though, is that, up to at least part of the 1960s, lighting circuits were being wired two plate with a junction box, yet as far back as August 1914, BS67 laid out specifications for two and three plate ceiling roses.

 

[ebee]

In my experience (which might or might not be an indication of common practices in my local area) I have very rarely seen junction boxes installed other than an afterthought for an additional socket or as a later addition.

I think that most (including me) would usually avoid junction boxes if possible,

One of my peers (a year or two older than me) did have the habit of removing the sheath from an exising cable and some insulation (very carefully) two add a junction box therefore the only conductors that were not continuous was the addition (being Radial or Ring Final and producing a Spur from the Ring/Radial) - as said the earthwire on the exisisting was left unsleeved, yet not everybody bothered with sleeving anyway and it was green sleeving for earths anyway but you`d not be surprised to see no sleeving anywhere even on new installs back in those days.

 

[bhm1712]

Solid floor downstairs?

No, suspended wood with 2 foot “crawl space” beneath.

 

[bhm1712]

In my experience (which might or might not be an indication of common practices in my local area) I have very rarely seen junction boxes installed other than an afterthought for an additional socket or as a later addition.

I think that most (including me) would usually avoid junction boxes if possible,

One of my peers (a year or two older than me) did have the habit of removing the sheath from an exising cable and some insulation (very carefully) two add a junction box therefore the only conductors that were not continuous was the addition (being Radial or Ring Final and producing a Spur from the Ring/Radial) - as said the earthwire on the exisisting was left unsleeved, yet not everybody bothered with sleeving anyway and it was green sleeving for earths anyway but you`d not be surprised to see no sleeving anywhere even on new installs back in those days.

The whole house has a plethora of these Ashley JB’s in its wiring. From the lighting circuit (no ceiling roses at all in this house just live neutral and earth to the fittings and live and switched live at the switch with an Ashley JB under the 1st floor floorboards / in the loft for upstairs lights) to the ring final circuits. Whoever did the install loved them.

 

[bhm1712]

Definitely a 50’s or 60’s style coupled with hiding the junction boxes in very inaccessible places.

A PITA

Yep you got that right. Every single one is under the floorboards on the ground floor and first floor. The only “easier” place to get at them is in the loft for upstairs lights.

 

[bernardgreen]

Found this in a cottage that a friend had just bought in the 1980's. It was hidden behind a wooden panel and several coats of paint.

The ring main was looped from jb to jb with a spur from each jb to a socket

 

[ebee]

Sometimes you can sort of guess why junction boxes abound an certain methods of wiring are emplyed and sometimes not.
Sometimes they do make a bit of sense in one respect yet sometimes hard to find any sense at all, maybe the difference between the experienced having an idea with some merit under particular circumstannces and the novice just blindy following doing what they`ve always done so far anyway without due regard.

Sometimes you find out the reasoning, even years later and sometimes you do not.
A chance conversation (in a pub for example) sometimes reveals an inkling.

 

[mikehammer69]

I think some electricians fitted them routinely . It was their install method.

 

[ebee]

I think you have a point Mike,

One junction box in most rooms and easy to get to to extend a ring or run a spur say in the near or distant future whilst a job is progressing - I would alternatively leave a bit of slack on a cable or two if I felt it might be an option, I have have known a few folks decide they do want an extra a socket or two once you`ve completed first fix and they decide that despite a firm no at time of initial estimate and a mention once starting, they secretly think then think and decide yes good idea.
Sometimes once job is all completed.

Once 15 years after job completed, you have a chance meeting and they say "You were right what you said!" having no idea what they mean they tell you that extra socket where you said would have been a godsend.