Open system not re-filling

[D_Hailsham]

A lad from work

Doing a bit on the side! I bet he's not CORGI registered

Just to be clear to anyone else questioning the quality of the install as opposed to helping me out.

I was not querying the quality of the work but the legality

I work for a Building Services firm and the guy who installed the water side of the boiler is a CORGI registered operative

You don't need to be CORGI registered to install pipes and radiators.

Obviously he has to be working for the company when doing notifiable gas work,

But if your pal is CORGI registered, why does he need to be working for the company when he does the gas work, i.e install boiler and flue and commission boiler?

 

[Bon]

The cert will be issued from the company therefore the work has to be done by "the company." That's what they guy in the know at my place reckons anyway.

I appreciate that you are concerned about the legality, it's just that a couple of people (one in particular had used the word "bodge") had questioned the quality which got my back up a little!

I got the same guy to do the water pipes that will be doing the gas & flue just in case he came along to do his bit and didn't like the install and wanted it all doing again, which is an outcome I believe you suggested could happen.

 

[nickso]

The cert will be issued from the company therefore the work has to be done by "the company." That's what they guy in the know at my place reckons anyway.

so "the company" is happy for a guy to be registering his weekend jobs on their registration number? thats a rare occurrence and a very understanding employer.

 

[Bon]

There you go again assuming things.

The water connections were done at a weekend, however the gas and flue connections will be done as a job for the company during company hours.

Tell you what, don't bother offering any advice on how to solve my particular problem, just continue to try and pick in holes in the way I am going about changing a boiler in my house.

The main bone of contention seems to be that I have used contacts I have to carry out the work in a non-conventional way, which I fully understand won't necessarily sit very well with some of the folk on here. But you mean to tell me that if you were unable to do the work yourself but could legally organise the replacement of your boiler through your place of work with people you know doing the work for a fraction of the cost of employing a CORGI chap who you don't know from Adam you wouldn't do it? This is in fact exactly what I did when getting my gas fire installed in 2006 and the guy who did it never informed BC of the work!

I was looking for a relatively quick solution to a problem to enable me to rectify the system over the weekend. Instead out of the 9 or so replies from others, only two or three have been an attempt to steer me in the correct direction.

Thank you DIYnot!

 

[Bon]

Righto, I've calmed down after my last post (this is really doing my head in now!) and persevered with it last night!

I now have water coming to the downstairs rads (think I just needed to be patient with it) and the F&E tank is emptying and filling as it should therefore this would suggest the cold feed definitely isn't blocked.

HOWEVER, I still can't bleed the upstairs rads. A little hiss could be heard from each of them as the bleed screw was opened which fizzled out after a few seconds.

Could be that the system just won't fill using gravity and I need to run the pump (without the boiler) and close off the downstairs valves etc to push water to the upstairs rads??

 

[nickso]

There you go again assuming things.

im not assuming things, i asked a straightforward question because you didnt make yourself clear. why bother asking for advice if you wont take it?

figure it out yourself as i cant be arsed with your attitude.

 

[mickyg]

When I removed the old boiler, I tried to flush the system, but after draining an amount from the F & E cistern, the water wasn't circulating past the pump.
I put this down to a blocked cold feed that would be sorted when the new boiler went in, however I now the new boiler is in, I can't seem to get the system to fill up.

So your aware of problems with your system that could be a blockage and therefore dirt in your system, but you decided to fit the boiler anyway.

The water dribbling out of the kitchen flow at the moment is pretty black so it could be blocked

so at this point your shiny new boiler is connected to a system full of carp.

My initial attempt at removing the system of sludge and other such gak was done when the old boiler was still in place

attempting to flush a system isn't really enough is it.

Could be that the system just won't fill using gravity and I need to run the pump (without the boiler) and close off the downstairs valves etc to push water to the upstairs rads??

system should fill just fine by gravity providing its clean and properly installed. clearly your not up to this job.

The whole job sounds like a bodge.

I stand by my original post. and for your sake I hope you don't have a SS gianonni HE in your boiler. cos it won't last 5mins on a dirty system.[/quote]

 

[Bon]

why bother asking for advice if you wont take it?

What advice did you offer that would help me solve the problem? Any advice regarding my problem will be (and has been) taken.

This site has been tremendously helpful to me over the last couple of years and is an invaluable source of information, however I am very suprised at some of the responses to this post, especially as others with a similar problem to mine seem to have been offered plenty of help.

However I suppose your attitude towards me is thoroughly deserved after some of my posts

 

[Bon]

When I removed the old boiler, I tried to flush the system, but after draining an amount from the F & E cistern, the water wasn't circulating past the pump.
I put this down to a blocked cold feed that would be sorted when the new boiler went in, however I now the new boiler is in, I can't seem to get the system to fill up.

So your aware of problems with your system that could be a blockage and therefore dirt in your system, but you decided to fit the boiler anyway.

Sorry, I should have explained, the cold feed was blocked and this was sorted when the new boiler was put in, therefore I assumed the problem was solved.

The water dribbling out of the kitchen flow at the moment is pretty black so it could be blocked

so at this point your shiny new boiler is connected to a system full of carp.

I've now got clear water flowing out of the flow and return valves in the kitchen (this rad isn't connected yet) so not sure if it is that dirty after all.

My initial attempt at removing the system of sludge and other such gak was done when the old boiler was still in place

attempting to flush a system isn't really enough is it.

Point taken

Could be that the system just won't fill using gravity and I need to run the pump (without the boiler) and close off the downstairs valves etc to push water to the upstairs rads??

system should fill just fine by gravity providing its clean and properly installed. clearly your not up to this job.

I did not do the install, however the guy who did is up to the job. I was just hoping to get this sorted myself but from what you're saying I should be looking at getting the system flushed?

 

[Deleted member 105431]

bodge!

 

[malkie]

Right it's obvious the lad just wants to know if he can refill the system without getting someone in who will tell him it needs a powerflush and charge him a few ton. Have you got in the loft and disconected the cold feed at the tank and then hooked a hose to it from a mains water pipe so you can let mains pressure run directly into the system you will know then if its blocked if the water doesnt get through.MAKE sure you have a drain off open downstairs so you can see it flowing through the system.Are you 100% theres no valve anywere that is closed,is it a seperate cold feed and expansion.Is there a mzv that may need to be open i know it shouldnt have to but you never know

 

[Bon]

The cold feed is definitely not blocked (it is a separate cold feed and expansion pipe). I've chopped the pipe both before and after where it joins the heating "flow" and I'm getting water gushing out. Opening the bleed screw on the pump results in water coming out and the 3-way valve is set to "manual".

At the moment the kitchen rad is off the wall and I've connected the flow and return valves to hoses which are running to drain.

Opening these one at a time results in water passing through, spluttering a bit, running, spluttering a bit then it stops. If I leave it a while and open again, the same thing happens.

This had lead me to thinking that the tank wasn't filling up quickly enough and could be the ball valve is shot which would mean I'm dragging a load of air through, but by the time I've got into the loft the tank is at the correct level.

If the system needs power-flushing (I appreciate it's hard to tell without seeing the job) then I'll get it done, it's just as you've pointed out it aint exactly cheap so wanted to make that the last resort.

Anyway I've admitted defeat now and I'm getting an independant CORGI chap to come round tomorrow and quote for finishing the lot off as opposed to relying on favours from the guys at work as it's getting colder by the day. I'll post his findings and await the "told you so" posts!!!

 

[Bon]

Had 2 independent chappies come round now and I'm still no nearer to solving the problem.

The first guy uhm'd and ah'd and asked why I hadn't gone for a combi boiler, but said he'd call me in the morning and give me a price for finishing the work off as long as I didn't mind converting to an S-plan system from the Y-plan that's been put in. Still waiting for his call.

Second guy uhm'd and ah'd and then asked why I hadn't gone for a combi. Then he said he wasn't interested in the job!

The saga continues.

 

[Bon]

Finally got it sorted!

I performed a mains flush and the system still wasn't filling and was on the verge of ripping it all out and getting someone in to start from square 1. I was up in the loft to isolate the F & E cistern and noticed a section of the cold feed was running back towards the tank.

When installing, the chap must have shoved the cold feed pipe in such a way that a horizontal section in the loft was tipped thus preventing gravity flow.

Just spent the last couple of hours correcting it and hey presto, the system is now full.

So MickeyG, your first post summed it up really, an installation bodge. I will be having words with the guy who did it tomorrow!!