Is it possible to fit an rcbo in this board?

ross94 · 17 Sep 2019

Hi all, i came home from work and was about to put tea on, so as always i preheated the oven then have a shower and get changed, when i came back down the stairs it seems the oven had lost power, the hob didn't work either, so i went to the fuseboard and right enough the breaker had tripped, the issue is however the breaker is not resetting at all, i tried turning off the oven and hob at the isolator then tried the breaker but no luck,so i took the cover of the consumer unit and removed the 6mm live cable from the top of the breaker but the mcb still wouldn't reset, i think the breaker mechanism has failed as the lever has no resistance and it just springs back to the off position.

So i am quite certain the breaker has failed, but before i order a replacement i was thinking of replacing with an rcbo as the cooker currently is not rcd protected for some reason? I am just wondering if hager sell an rcbo that will fit this consumer unit? Here is a couple pictures of my consumer unit.

and here is the isolator

as you can see this also contains a socket hence my question about an rcbo, I often use this socket for when i cut the grass as its right near the backdoor, so i reckon it would be a good idea to fit an rcbo if possible? I don't really want to be messing about altering the busbar and also the cooker cable may not have enough slack. Any help would be great.
Should the cooker circuit be on the rcd side as it has a socket? Why was it not on the rcd to begin with, are cookers prone to nuisance trips perhaps? or were the rules just different back then? This consumer unit is original to the house build around 1995 ish
Thanks.

333rocky333 · 17 Sep 2019

Hager stuff fits most of there boards,they just often change the codes, i believe the current range is MTN.
Why is the Main switch still on.

ericmark · 17 Sep 2019

I think it very unlikely you can fit a single width RCBO, you can likely fit a 2 unit wide version, but that would need some alterations which would remove the type testing so it would be a distribution unit not a consumer unit.

The rules have become tighter and tighter over the years, not sure if BS7671:2001 or BS7671:2008 (17th Edition) but all sockets have to be RCD protected, and now most cable buried in the wall, there are a few exceptions, but nearly all has to be RCD protected. Also today metal board.

I would guess you could swap the buss bar so have more RCD protected circuits, but I have an old system with two RCD's in my old house, and every so often I would get a batch of tripping then years of no tripping, so in this house it is all RCBO as yet, cross fingers, never had one trip, except when testing. In the main one has to change board when doing alterations as any addition needs RCD protection. However I would say a plug in RCD would protect you, so I would not be that keen on renewing the whole CU unless you want to add to circuits.

Sorry seems Hagar do make short RCBO's

hager-ADA332G-electronic-1p-6ka-b-curve-32a-30ma-type-a-ac-pulsating-dc-sensitive-1m-rcbo-1-mini.jpg

so seems they may fit, old one

would likely be too long.

EFLImpudence · 17 Sep 2019

ross94 said:
Hi all, i came home from work and was about to put tea on, so as always i preheated the oven then have a shower and get changed, when i came back down the stairs it seems the oven had lost power, the hob didn't work either, so i went to the fuseboard and right enough the breaker had tripped, the issue is however the breaker is not resetting at all, i tried turning off the oven and hob at the isolator then tried the breaker but no luck,so i took the cover of the consumer unit and removed the 6mm live cable from the top of the breaker but the mcb still wouldn't reset, i think the breaker mechanism has failed as the lever has no resistance and it just springs back to the off position.So i am quite certain the breaker has failed,

You might be right, it would appear to be broken.
However, that does not mean there was or is not a fault.

but before i order a replacement i was thinking of replacing with an rcbo as the cooker currently is not rcd protected for some reason? I am just wondering if hager sell an rcbo that will fit this consumer unit? Here is a couple pictures of my consumer unit.

RCBOs are a bit taller but it looks like one would go in.

as you can see this also contains a socket hence my question about an rcbo, I often use this socket for when i cut the grass as its right near the backdoor, so i reckon it would be a good idea to fit an rcbo if possible?

Yes, for the socket used for outdoor tools an RCD would be a good idea.
I wouldn't bother if it was just for the cooker.

I don't really want to be messing about altering the busbar and also the cooker cable may not have enough slack. Any help would be great.

You wouldn't need to alter the busbar, but the RCBO should be tested before use, and presumably you do not have the equipment.

Should the cooker circuit be on the rcd side as it has a socket? Why was it not on the rcd to begin with, are cookers prone to nuisance trips perhaps? or were the rules just different back then? This consumer unit is original to the house build around 1995 ish
Thanks.

As above re: RCD for cooker and socket.
Rules different back then.
Cookers are unlikely to produce nuisance trips.

JohnW2 · 17 Sep 2019

ross94 said:
... the issue is however the breaker is not resetting at all, i tried turning off the oven and hob at the isolator then tried the breaker but no luck,so i took the cover of the consumer unit and removed the 6mm live cable from the top of the breaker but the mcb still wouldn't reset, i think the breaker mechanism has failed as the lever has no resistance and it just springs back to the off position.... So i am quite certain the breaker has failed ...

It may well have failed, BUT ... with some MCBs (and RCDs), after they have tripped one has to push the lever ('firmly') right down (i.e. into the 'off' position) before they can be reset. Did you try that?

Kind Regards, John

ross94 · 17 Sep 2019

JohnW2 said:
It may well have failed, BUT ... with some MCBs (and RCDs), after they have tripped one has to push the lever ('firmly') right down (i.e. into the 'off' position) before they can be reset. Did you try that?
Hi,yes i tried that as well as removing the load but the breaker won't stay on as soon as i let go it flips backs down, its almost as if something has snapped?
Kind Regards, John

ross94 · 17 Sep 2019

333rocky333 said:
Hager stuff fits most of there boards,they just often change the codes, i believe the current range is MTN.
Why is the Main switch still on.

So i can see what i'm doing and because i'm not daft enough to stick my hands on the busbar

I appreciate your concern though but i was very careful.

JohnW2 · 17 Sep 2019

ross94 said:
Hi,yes i tried that as well as removing the load but the breaker won't stay on as soon as i let go it flips backs down, its almost as if something has snapped?

Fair enough. However, with devices such as I described, that's exactly the situation - when one pushes it up, it flips back down immediately, giving the impression that something has snapped (even if the load is removed) - but it those cases it will reset (and stay reset), once one has firmly pushed the lever right down (further down than where it comes to rest after it has tripped).

So, if you've tried that and it didn't work then it does, indeed, sound as if you have a faulty breaker.

Kind Regards, John

Adam_151 · 17 Sep 2019

While the standard hager rcbos do fit, they tight on the top terminals in that board, ideally you need one of the new reduced height rcbos, the 32A is Hager part no. ADA332G https://www.hager.co.uk/product-cat...cbos-type-b-30ma-6ka-1-pole/ada332g/91254.htm

Seen quite few hager mcbs go 'floppy' seems quite a common failure mode, Theres probably a fault in the cooker, also, it likely tried to trip and failed, but at least it failed safe. Remember swapping one that failed the same way when it tripped because the householder had left the flex of an iron trailing across a hob and also accidentally turned hob control on, was a fancy steam generator iron too with the flex melted about 300mm from the plug, and she'd chucked the thing in the bin in annoyance, after I swapped the breaker I said to go and get it out the bin and I cut the flex back and re-fitted the plugtop. It amazes me how happy people are these days to chuck expensive things away without a second thought!

Risteard · 17 Sep 2019

JohnW2 said:
It may well have failed, BUT ... with some MCBs (and RCDs), after they have tripped one has to push the lever ('firmly') right down (i.e. into the 'off' position) before they can be reset. Did you try that?

Kind Regards, John

Not the case with Hager.

winston1 · 17 Sep 2019

Adam_151 said:
While the standard hager rcbos do fit, they tight on the top terminals in that board, ideally you need one of the new reduced height rcbos, the 32A is Hager part no. ADA332G https://www.hager.co.uk/product-cat...cbos-type-b-30ma-6ka-1-pole/ada332g/91254.htm

Seen quite few hager mcbs go 'floppy' seems quite a common failure mode, Theres probably a fault in the cooker, also, it likely tried to trip and failed, but at least it failed safe. Remember swapping one that failed the same way when it tripped because the householder had left the flex of an iron trailing across a hob and also accidentally turned hob control on, was a fancy steam generator iron too with the flex melted about 300mm from the plug, and she'd chucked the thing in the bin in annoyance, after I swapped the breaker I said to go and get it out the bin and I cut the flex back and re-fitted the plugtop. It amazes me how happy people are these days to chuck expensive things away without a second thought!

I hope you refitted the whole plug, not just it’s top.

Risteard · 17 Sep 2019

winston1 said:
not just it’s top.

"Not just it is top" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

DetlefSchmitz · 17 Sep 2019

Are you criticising hi's grammar?

Risteard · 17 Sep 2019

DetlefSchmitz said:
Are you criticising hi's grammar?

If he/she/it wants to have constant pedantic arguments about "plug tops" then he/she/it should at least make certain that his/her/its posts do not contain errors.

DetlefSchmitz · 17 Sep 2019

Oh, well. Joke wasted!

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Is it possible to fit an rcbo in this board?

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