I read that as - Hope borrowed neutrals don't exist but don't assume they don't exist
Installing RCBO Query
- Thread starter veedee
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Sure, but that's the same as saying "... but DO assume that they might exist",isn't it?
It may be but I read it with the emphasis on - hope the don't exist.
But I think you are really reading far too deeply into what is a fairly basic comment about the possibility of something.
Well I assume they might exist because they sometimes actually do exist, therefore to avoid nasty surprises at an extremely inconvenient time then that helps mitigate the disastrous consequences to some degree.
Years ago, someone I know was thinking of leaving their employer and starting up business with some of their fellow workers.
I advised yes it all seems good, and in the present economic climate goody goody. However please do consider every single thing that could go wrong if things change. Which items can you avoid completely/easily, which can you mitigate to some degree or other. What is the worst that can happen if every one of these things do happen or some of them happen. If, after considering all of this you still think it`s a good idea then crack on.
I hope the rose tinted view you have prevails, that would be great if it did but prepare for the worst.
I got slammed by A N Other "Well you put a downer on everything!" .
Anyway, they set up a team of 4 directors and a few fellow co-workers and started employing a few others too. Things took off and they had about 5 really good years so yippee. Then certain changes started to appear, globally to one extent or another, it brought them to a bad realisation, 3 directors left the sinking ship, one star employee was made redundant the sued a long claim (eventually fought off successfully but that took its toll). The remaining director came close to losing his own home and gained employment with a rival firm. It was a hard time but thankfully they eventually pulled through it and another ten years passed and they became moderately successful again, phew!
I never uttered "I told you so!" but they did eventually confide in me "I wish we had listened to you!" . I was purely giving them the benefit of my own experiences running a business, a roller coaster of peaks and troughs and every combination in between.
So yes, I always considers worst case scenarios and mitigate if needed, always assume that there could be a borrowed N out there cos some days there shall be.
Years ago, someone I know was thinking of leaving their employer and starting up business with some of their fellow workers.
I advised yes it all seems good, and in the present economic climate goody goody. However please do consider every single thing that could go wrong if things change. Which items can you avoid completely/easily, which can you mitigate to some degree or other. What is the worst that can happen if every one of these things do happen or some of them happen. If, after considering all of this you still think it`s a good idea then crack on.
I hope the rose tinted view you have prevails, that would be great if it did but prepare for the worst.
I got slammed by A N Other "Well you put a downer on everything!" .
Anyway, they set up a team of 4 directors and a few fellow co-workers and started employing a few others too. Things took off and they had about 5 really good years so yippee. Then certain changes started to appear, globally to one extent or another, it brought them to a bad realisation, 3 directors left the sinking ship, one star employee was made redundant the sued a long claim (eventually fought off successfully but that took its toll). The remaining director came close to losing his own home and gained employment with a rival firm. It was a hard time but thankfully they eventually pulled through it and another ten years passed and they became moderately successful again, phew!
I never uttered "I told you so!" but they did eventually confide in me "I wish we had listened to you!" . I was purely giving them the benefit of my own experiences running a business, a roller coaster of peaks and troughs and every combination in between.
So yes, I always considers worst case scenarios and mitigate if needed, always assume that there could be a borrowed N out there cos some days there shall be.
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Thanks.
So are you saying that JW was muddying the waters?
I've changed CU's before.. It's easy work.
Will stick to the original plan though of just replacing two rcbo's
That would be a right bargain..
No, TLC are selling MK RCBO's for £14.40.
I already have two, so remaining three would be £43.20
Very sensible. The impossible ( 1 in 10,000,000 ) can sometimes happen and the effects can be more serious as no one is prepared for it happening
And indeed exactly the reason I mentioned it in the first instance which for some reason has created a dozen or so posts to confuse the issue
I think I'd expect more borrowed neutrals than that, even in harmonised colours.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why there is all this discussion. The fact obviously is that, regardless of what words one uses, the issue might arise,so one ought to be aware of that possibility and prepared to deal with it if it does arise.
Kind Regards, John
There is a limit to how small a risk one can sensibly 'prepare for'.
The level of risk you mention (1 in 10,000,000) is almost an order of magnitude lower than the annual risk of a person being struck by lightning in thee UK,
Agreed. Bernard is correct in what he says and yes John is correct when he mentions lightning too. .
In this case I certainly would put the risk of there being a borrowed N as being a lot higher than Bernard's example . Ive found a few in during my working life, some expected, some partly so and some not expected really, putting a figure on it would be extremely difficult for any electricians or by electricians as a whole as a sort of "average" either, but yes sometimes it does crop up, it can do and it does do now and again.
Whilst what Bernard wrote is literally correct (that hings do happen, no matter how low the probability),I think he may have confused some people by mentioning "1 in 10,000,000" since the 'risk'of encountering a 'borrowed neutral'is (as you go on to say) dramatically higher than that - which is why I have said that it is wise to 'assume'that a 'borrowed neutral' might be present, and be prepared to dealwith it if it is present.
As you also said ..
Kind Regards, John
If the 'JW' you refer to was Flameport, then he was merely presenting his view (with which not everyone would agree) as to what is required to be strictly compliant with current regs -so I don't think he should be 'knocked'for that(even though he didn't acknowledge that others may have different views).So are you saying that JW was muddying the waters?
As for me (another 'JW'!), I would personally be happy to do as was proposed. Furthermore, on the basis of what I currently know, would be happy to live with Type AC RCDs for the rest of my life (although,again,others will feel differently).
Kind Regards, John
Thanks John. You're advice has been brilliant throughout the thread.
Never noticed that you're also called 'JW'
You're very welcome.
Well, the clue is in JohnW2 -I really am John and my surname really does start with "W". As for the "2", I presume that there must already have been some other "JohnW" when I signed up to the forum many years ago!Never noticed that you're also called 'JW'
KInd Regards,John
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