True, but it's also often the case that "simple" options are 'safer' than more complicated ones - which produces some conflicts of thought if, ass will often be the case, the simplest options are also the easiest ones!
Kind Regards, John
Re-routing a ring mains
- Thread starter Jupiter01
- Start date
Kind Regards, John
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It's complicated. Let me explain...
The ring starts at the CU (Obviously!), goes to a socket that is used by the boiler, then to a socket for the cooker hood, then veers off to the hallway to a socket that is never used, from here it goes to a single socket (hardly ever used) in the dining room (attached to the kitchen area), it then goes to a double socket in the dining room and from here back to the CU.
The fault is between the hallway socket and the single socket in the dining room.
I am proposing that I go from the cooker hood to the double socket in the dining room as this is an easy route to bed a new cable. This will mean that I have 6 cable end to terminate.
Incidentally, the double socket in the dining room already has a spur for another socket.
I assume there is no option to spur either of the two sockets I am suggesting to chop out of the ring?
Thanks for all your help.
As I read it this is the current set-up.
Green and blue cables are good, Red is bad and to be abandoned.
You are planning to add the yellow.
Are there any other sockets and what sort of loads get plugged into the dining room?
I'm thinking 2 things:
1) Change the MCB to 20A if it will be big enough for you requirements or possibly 25A if cable calculations allow, abandon red cable.
That will create a radial circuit with 2 branches starting at the CU.
2)Maintain the 32A MCB and ring but run your new cableto the single dining socket or to the spur if either of those are feasible.
You will have a ring with 2 spurs
This all assumes the existing circuit is wired correctly with 2.5mm² cable.
spot on!
As I read it this is the current set-up.
Green and blue cables are good, Red is bad and to be abandoned.
You are planning to add the yellow.
No other sockets. The double socket gets used for the hoover, phone charging and such like. the washing machine is plugged into the spurred socket. The fridge and cooker are on separate circuits.
I wasn't aware of this. I assume you can have a single breaker powering two radials?
I do like your option two! This will mean that everything continues to work and I just need to cap-off the cable running between the hall and single dining socket? Presumably, I can put all three wires on each end into a single 3 way wago connector and just leave in the back box for this socket?
Thanks so much for the effort you have gone to in order to explain this. Much appreciated @SUNRAY
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This is also fine if you are able to safely and securely get 4 cables into the socket but it is something that often will not fit in the terminals.
It is permissable to add a connector behind the socket
if there is space.
It is totally acceptable to do that but not with a 32A MCB, basically 2.5mm² cable is rated at no more than 26A or so and could be less than that depending on how it's installed. Having 2 double and a single socket (as you have) means the potential load could be well over the 32 A. I'd aim to reduce it to 20A. 13A for washing machine, 4A for vacuum, 2a for boiler and not all will be running together anyway.
OPtion 2 is to fit your bypass cable but to a different place if its feasible. I've made a later post too.
It's absolutely fine. I can't see anyone coming up with any objection to it.
No, not by definition.
As SUNRAY said, it will be two branches of the one radial circuit.
Can I please run my fault finding past you experts again, just to make sure I’ve not overlooked something.
Firstly, I disabled all the MCB’s apart from the one for these sockets, I then whipped around with my socket tester to identify sockets on this circuit.
I then switched off the CU at the main switch and since there were only 5 sockets, I unwired all of them. Cables hanging out of the sockets.
I then connected a wander lead to the Neutral on the hallway socket and took the wander lead next to the single dining socket and used my two pole tester in continuity mode against the neutral at this socket. This tested successfully and reported continuity.
I took from this that the hallway cable connects to the single socket in the dining room. I then did the same across earth and live separately. There was no continuity here as I expected.
That’s the extent of my fault finding. Please let me know if there are any flaws in my approach.
Thanks again.
Firstly, I disabled all the MCB’s apart from the one for these sockets, I then whipped around with my socket tester to identify sockets on this circuit.
I then switched off the CU at the main switch and since there were only 5 sockets, I unwired all of them. Cables hanging out of the sockets.
I then connected a wander lead to the Neutral on the hallway socket and took the wander lead next to the single dining socket and used my two pole tester in continuity mode against the neutral at this socket. This tested successfully and reported continuity.
I took from this that the hallway cable connects to the single socket in the dining room. I then did the same across earth and live separately. There was no continuity here as I expected.
That’s the extent of my fault finding. Please let me know if there are any flaws in my approach.
Thanks again.
If you think you know where the two ends of the damaged cable are, i would join L N and E all together at one end, then go to the other end and you should get continuity between any combination of two cores.
What led you to believe there is a break in L and E to start with, that would not be easily obvious with a ring circuit
What led you to believe there is a break in L and E to start with, that would not be easily obvious with a ring circuit
Would this work if Live and Earth have broken continuity? Only Neutral has continuity. That's why I suggested the use of the wander lead once I have established the path of this part of the ring.
The break in Live and Earth was revealed to me in the EICR report done by the electrician.
If the socket was part of the ring and you are going to bypass it.... Why not reconnect that socket as a spur of the ring?
My thinking is that only one of the cables to the socket is damaged/faulty/broken - so just cut that back at each end, run your bypass, but retain the socket fed via the one good cable leading to it.
No,if there is a problem it would be open circuit, but the point of the test, will confirm your thoughts and prove you are actually going to bypass the correct faulty section.
Sounds like the Eicr may have failed on End to End, L to L as well as E to E continuity, though does not prove the Broken Live is necessarily in the same section of cable as the broken Earth.
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