Run electricity supply to kitchen island but avoid disturbing newly laid floor

danieljamesscott · 28 Jul 2021

What are the possible solutions for running an electricity supply to a kitchen island while avoiding disturbing a newly laid floor.

Imagine there is a gas hob on a kitchen island. If I would like to have it switched to electric, could we disconnect the gas supply, and run an electricity cable through the pipe to supply the new electric hob.

Would it be safe and legal to run an electricity cable through a disconnected gas pipe?

Are there other solutions? Is it possible to 'tunnel' somehow?

Tigercubrider · 28 Jul 2021

is it a solid floor or suspended?

bernardgreen · 28 Jul 2021

Could you bring the cables down from the ceiling in a decorative pillar ( perhaps with hooks for kitchen utensils ) ?

plugwash · 28 Jul 2021

I don't know if there are any regs specifically prohibiting use of old gas pipes as electrical conduits but Even if there are no regs prohibiting it I suspect it's unlikely to be practical.

The first problem is the pipe is likely to be too small. I suspect your cooker is fed with 15mm copper pipe. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.5.3.htm has some figures for sizing of conduits, it's based on an older edition of the regs but I doubt they have changed much. Lets say we assume 6mm² line an neutral conductors and a 2.5mm² earth. That gives us a cable factor of 146 assuming two bends with 16mm conduit that would only allow us up to 2m, I suspect the run is longer than that and of course a 15mm pipe is smaller than a 16mm conduit. If you try to use a cable rather than single wires the situation is likely to be much worse.

The second problem is the pipe won't have been installed with cable pulling in mind, conduit is installed with accessible pull boxes at regular intervals and only a limited number of gentle bends between those boxes. plumbers often use tight elbows and have no concept of providing pull boxes.

The third problem is if you do use single wires then the pipe would need to be earthed and a continuous connection would need to be made to the boxes, but plumbing fittings use different sizes from electrical fittings and aren't rated in terms of electrical continuity.

The fourth problem is it violates the principle of least surprise, when one sees a copper pipe one is expecting gas or water, not electricity.

danieljamesscott · 29 Jul 2021

Tigercubrider said:
is it a solid floor or suspended?

Not sure - it's a house we're possibly going to buy. But a suspended floor would definitely make it easier.

danieljamesscott · 29 Jul 2021

bernardgreen said:
Could you bring the cables down from the ceiling in a decorative pillar ( perhaps with hooks for kitchen utensils ) ?

Possibly, I think it would look a little strange because it's a vaulted ceiling. Good idea though, thanks.

danieljamesscott · 29 Jul 2021

plugwash said:
I don't know if there are any regs specifically prohibiting use of old gas pipes as electrical conduits but Even if there are no regs prohibiting it I suspect it's unlikely to be practical.

The first problem is the pipe is likely to be too small. I suspect your cooker is fed with 15mm copper pipe. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.5.3.htm has some figures for sizing of conduits, it's based on an older edition of the regs but I doubt they have changed much. Lets say we assume 6mm² line an neutral conductors and a 2.5mm² earth. That gives us a cable factor of 146 assuming two bends with 16mm conduit that would only allow us up to 2m, I suspect the run is longer than that and of course a 15mm pipe is smaller than a 16mm conduit. If you try to use a cable rather than single wires the situation is likely to be much worse.

The second problem is the pipe won't have been installed with cable pulling in mind, conduit is installed with accessible pull boxes at regular intervals and only a limited number of gentle bends between those boxes. plumbers often use tight elbows and have no concept of providing pull boxes.

The third problem is if you do use single wires then the pipe would need to be earthed and a continuous connection would need to be made to the boxes, but plumbing fittings use different sizes from electrical fittings and aren't rated in terms of electrical continuity.

The fourth problem is it violates the principle of least surprise, when one sees a copper pipe one is expecting gas or water, not electricity.

That's great information, thanks. I was expecting that we might have to try and make it 'straight' by digging down to the bend.

I guess I was hoping for some sort of 'boring' device, which would 'worm' its way along, pulling something behind it.

Tigercubrider · 29 Jul 2021

is it a tiled floor? Under floor heating?

It would possibly be easier and cheaper to pay a tiler (and risk) to try to lift tiles to access the floor?
or retile the whole thing?

possibly worth looking at the fuse box to see if the electrician already included the feed to the island?
Presumably the island has some mains? It "might" be future proofed with a chunky feed incase.

danieljamesscott · 29 Jul 2021

Tigercubrider said:
is it a tiled floor? Under floor heating?

It would possibly be easier and cheaper to pay a tiler (and risk) to try to lift tiles to access the floor?
or retile the whole thing?

possibly worth looking at the fuse box to see if the electrician already included the feed to the island?
Presumably the island has some mains? It "might" be future proofed with a chunky feed incase.

Yeah, I'm hoping there's one already there. This is a house we're going to look around to see if we want to buy it, so I want to see what the options are beforehand. It's a newly renovated kitchen, but we *really* don't like gas hobs!

Tigercubrider · 29 Jul 2021

ask?
unless it's a massive floor I can't see it being a deal breaker, even if you have to wait a year to fix it.

danieljamesscott · 29 Jul 2021

Tigercubrider said:
ask?
unless it's a massive floor I can't see it being a deal breaker, even if you have to wait a year to fix it.

I'm definitely going to ask (Although I've been lied to about similar issues in the past...). But I want to be prepared for the 'no' answer.

sparkwright · 29 Jul 2021

How old is the house?

Are there sockets in the island?

I believe there are electric hobs that plug into 13amp sockets, don't know how good they are.

Is there under floor heating?

danieljamesscott · 29 Jul 2021

sparkwright said:
How old is the house?

Are there sockets in the island?

I believe there are electric hobs that plug into 13amp sockets, don't know how good they are.

Is there under floor heating?

The house is victorian.

I'm not sure about sockets on the island, doesn't look like it, but will check.

Pretty sure there's no underfloor heating, which would make it simpler.

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Run electricity supply to kitchen island but avoid disturbing newly laid floor

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