Drainage for downstairs toilet install

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burts

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Regs on a downstairs toilet install - New toilet located at the front of the house and the nearest drain connection is 14m away down the side of the house. The drain connection mentioned was originally a gulley serving the upstairs bath, basin and shower (1st floor side of house) and the kitchen sink (ground floor). I exposed the gulley and removed an old clay trap and am left with a clay elbow facing up. I can fit a clay to plastic connector and elbow towards the new toilet. The required fall can be achieved so what I need to know is what is required for this to be able to serve the upstairs bath, basin, shower and sink.
Do I need to run a vent up to atmosphere?
Is an inspection chamber required? Or can I just connect and back fill providing there are rodding points?
My issue is the clay elbow goes underneath a conservatory and there isn’t any other drain in garden
 
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burts said:
Regs on a downstairs toilet install - New toilet located at the front of the house and the nearest drain connection is 14m away down the side of the house. The drain connection mentioned was originally a gulley serving the upstairs bath, basin and shower (1st floor side of house) and the kitchen sink (ground floor). I exposed the gulley and removed an old clay trap and am left with a clay elbow facing up. I can fit a clay to plastic connector and elbow towards the new toilet. The required fall can be achieved so what I need to know is what is required for this to be able to serve the upstairs bath, basin, shower and sink.
Do I need to run a vent up to atmosphere?
Is an inspection chamber required? Or can I just connect and back fill providing there are rodding points?
My issue is the clay elbow goes underneath a conservatory and there isn’t any other drain in garden
Click to expand...
I'm not getting you at all, here. Probably just me. Any chance of posting a rough sketch of your proposal?
 
noseall said:
I'm not getting you at all, here. Probably just me. Any chance of posting a rough sketch of your proposal?
Click to expand...
Not sure I even understood myself
I will post some pictures of what I’ve done.
 

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The old clay fitting is what I exposed which was taking the upstairs basin, bath, boiler condense and kitchen sink low level (I never put that rainwater serving the bathroom and will change) So I have gone on to an existing branch that runs in to the main drain which i assume is under the conservatory built years ago. (Possibly why this branch was move to the alley to start with a sit had an inspection hatch)
My first tee is going to be serving the kitchen sink and upstairs bathroom, then it runs along to the new toilet and Basin. I will have a rodding point on the first tee and another down at the toilet, so how I read the regs is I don’t need to put an inspection chamber and if it’s within 15m of the main drain then it doesn’t require additionally ventilation?
If it is over 15m (might be 16m) do I need to vent the drainage? Also because it serves the upstairs which is over 2m from invert of the drainage? (Did I read that somewhere)
I believe it’s a combination drain also so does that also mean it needs additional ventilation?
I know it will all work but I’m getting retrospective planning as they needed it done ASAP due to not being able to get up the stairs. Want to make sure it’s done to pass
 

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Is there any fall on that pipe? Looking at it there should be about 250mm of fall.

What is happening beyond that spigot? That is where an IC would normally be located.

What is that tee junction for?
 
Beyond the spigot goes under the conservatory in to the main drain. I am assuming this branch from the main drain was originally installed when the conservatory was built to serve the kitchen sink and upstairs bathroom that most likely ran in to a hopper at the back of the house. There was a very small inspection hatch to a clay trap to the right of where my spigot is.
The fall is around 300 - 350mm which achieves building regs and it all runs away fine.
The first tee on my drainage is going to have the kitchen sink running in low level using a mcalpine drain connector that has an 1 1/2 side inlet then run up to a rodding point then the upstairs bathroom sink and bath will also run in to it.
That is what that drain was originally serving, I’ve just rejigged it to add a downstairs wc and 2 rodding points instead of an IC, which I’m pretty sure satisfies the table in building regs.
My mail think i don’t know is additional vent pipe.
Downstairs wc is 15-16 m from main drain by the time it goes under the conservatory but the drainage also serves appliances coming from a 1st floor and I believe this makes it require a vent stack ?
Also with the sewers being combined foul/rainwater ?
 
burts said:
The old clay fitting is what I exposed which was taking the upstairs basin, bath, boiler condense and kitchen sink low level (I never put that rainwater serving the bathroom and will change) So I have gone on to an existing branch that runs in to the main drain which i assume is under the conservatory built years ago. (Possibly why this branch was move to the alley to start with a sit had an inspection hatch)
My first tee is going to be serving the kitchen sink and upstairs bathroom, then it runs along to the new toilet and Basin. I will have a rodding point on the first tee and another down at the toilet, so how I read the regs is I don’t need to put an inspection chamber and if it’s within 15m of the main drain then it doesn’t require additionally ventilation?
If it is over 15m (might be 16m) do I need to vent the drainage? Also because it serves the upstairs which is over 2m from invert of the drainage? (Did I read that somewhere)
I believe it’s a combination drain also so does that also mean it needs additional ventilation?
I know it will all work but I’m getting retrospective planning as they needed it done ASAP due to not being able to get up the stairs. Want to make sure it’s done to pass
Click to expand...
Rainwater does not need venting, no. Is there a SVP anywhere else?

You could always use that tee as a vent then boss the sink into the new SVP? Ideally though, it should be at the head of the drain, up by the loo connection. Extending that black stub stack would be more beneficial.
 
noseall said:
Rainwater does not need venting, no. Is there a SVP anywhere else?

You could always use that tee as a vent then boss the sink into the new SVP? Ideally though, it should be at the head of the drain, up by the loo connection. Extending that black stub stack would be more beneficial.
Click to expand...
There is another SVP for the upstairs toilet, which is around 15-16m from the nee toilet which I believe means additional ventilation is not required …. But the drainage is combined foul and rainwater which is where my point about rainwater comes in. I’m sure the regs mention combined drains do not take in to consideration of the existing SVP and new branches require it. That is what I was asking.
I couldn’t put an SVP where the toilet is as it would need to go above the upstairs appliances and that’s an old porch where the new WC is. Would look awful and prob not achieve nothing.
Anyway….. in your opinion am I ok to not have an IC because I have 2 accessible points for inspection and maintenance?
I will deal with the vent If I need to in the future
 
burts said:
There is another SVP for the upstairs toilet, which is around 15-16m from the nee toilet which I believe means additional ventilation is not required …. But the drainage is combined foul and rainwater which is where my point about rainwater comes in. I’m sure the regs mention combined drains do not take in to consideration of the existing SVP and new branches require it. That is what I was asking.
I couldn’t put an SVP where the toilet is as it would need to go above the upstairs appliances and that’s an old porch where the new WC is. Would look awful and prob not achieve nothing.
Anyway….. in your opinion am I ok to not have an IC because I have 2 accessible points for inspection and maintenance?
I will deal with the vent If I need to in the future
Click to expand...
I'm still not sure what the existing clay pipe is doing where your new plastic connects to it...? You should have an IC at this point. I doubt BC will pass it without. A foul drain should run straight.
 
The existing clay pipe had the kitchen sink and upstairs basin and bath connected to it …….. it runs to the main drain which is under the conservatory built years ago. I’m not sure how else I can explain it if you don’t get what I’ve said.
 
When it talks about blockages it states 1 method in table 11 to be used. Rodding points are one method.
Doesn’t say an IC is required plus I wouldn’t be able to get one where the existing clay is anyone.
I will just go with what I have done
 

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burts said:
The existing clay pipe had the kitchen sink and upstairs basin and bath connected to it …….. it runs to the main drain which is under the conservatory built years ago. I’m not sure how else I can explain it if you don’t get what I’ve said.
Click to expand...
It should NOT be vertical, lol.

BC will not want the foul solids going on a merry jolly or around the bend. You need to clarify or demonstrate what the pipe is doing (direction wise) once they pass into that old salt glaze pipe. Bath waste is one thing, solids with tissue and sanitary stuff etc is another.
 
noseall said:
It should NOT be vertical, lol.

BC will not want the foul solids going on a merry jolly or around the bend. You need to clarify or demonstrate what the pipe is doing (direction wise) once they pass into that old salt glaze pipe. Bath waste is one thing, solids with tissue and sanitary stuff etc is another.
Click to expand...
I didn’t install the clay pipe so……
Also it doesn’t run vertical, it’s horizontal going under the conservatory in to a drain. The elbow is facing upwards because that’s where it terminated to a gully trap ….. that one bend down from what I have done is no more restrictive to what an IC would be with the pipe changing direction.
What is your actual trade out of curiosity?
 
It goes in to the main drain ….. that the other toilet SVP is connected to. I have said that a number of times.
 
burts said:
Also it doesn’t run vertical, it’s horizontal
Click to expand...
The inlet to that clay pipe is vertical, even Ray Charles can see that. And its got a 90 degree (87.5) bend exiting it.

How are you going to rod that S bend?
 
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