Smart meter commissioning (Ed.)

Adam_151 · 18 Apr 2024

Harry Bloomfield said:
and a workaround to the poor mobile comms, with the Mini, and a server setup specially to provide instant data..

Can the readings obtained through the home mini be used for billing then? I was never sure, I did wonder if the mini was only to provide data to the app as an alternative to the IHD (when I had my smart meters done last august, I was offered IHD or mini), I didn't know if there was some regulatory something or other that said the billing had to be done through data from the data collection firm (It wouldn't have supprised me if the government had done something like that in setting the rules for SMETS 2 to avoid the mess of the first generation and the smart capability not transferable...)

I was never sure, but from what you say, if yours were giving issues on BG but suddently improved when you moved to octopus and got the home mini, sounds like they can

Like you, I cannot fault octopus, I'm on Agile (And tracker for Gas), and I was able to reduce my Direct debit slightly even though I now have a electric vehicle :8

Harry Bloomfield · 18 Apr 2024

Adam_151 said:
Can the readings obtained through the home mini be used for billing then?

No, it cannot be used for billing, though there are discussions going on, perhaps towards that end.

Adam_151 said:
I was never sure, but from what you say, if yours were giving issues on BG but suddently improved when you moved to octopus and got the home mini, sounds like they can

The difference between BG and O was nowt to do with lack of sufficient data, I provided BG with correct meter reading every week - it was simply due to BG's completely chaotic accounting. It was impossible to work out whether I owed them, or they owed me. I was really glad to see the end of them, because only then was I able to know where I was financially. Their final parting shot, was to take £600, without any warning, as a direct debit, to settle the account.

ericmark · 18 Apr 2024

I have found out why my bills did not tally, seems low rate until 5 am not 8 am, it is an EV rate, did not realise EV's could re-charge in 5 hours. Thought EV batteries were larger than 35 kWh seems I was wrong.

Why Not Indeed · 18 Apr 2024

ericmark said:
Thought EV batteries were larger than 35 kWh seems I was wrong.

It's difficult to believe that you didn't know, or couldn't guess, that they come in a variety of sizes.

ericmark · 18 Apr 2024

Why Not Indeed said:
It's difficult to believe that you didn't know, or couldn't guess, that they come in a variety of sizes.

Yes but to charge at 7 kW in 5 hours that means maximum charge at cheap rate is 35 kWh,

E.on said:
Lithium-ion battery capacity is measured in kWh (Kilowatt hours). The average capacity is around 40kWh, but some cars now have up to a 100 kWh capacity.

As an example Nissan suggest that the 40kWh battery in it's Nissan Leaf model will give you a 168 mile range.

I would have thought the Nissan Leaf is rather a small car.

The battery of the Jaguar I-Pace EV400 has a total capacity of 90 kWh. The usable capacity is 84.7 kWh.

this is going to take at 7 kW some 13 hours to recharge.

Now if the tariff was marketed as simple off peak charging then you get what is offered, but it was marketed as EV charging, It is likely that for me the 5 hours is ample, it will see me through until I get solar again, my upset was told midnight until 8 am, and only when the figures did not add up did I find midnight until 5 am. At around a 600 watt base load 2.88 kWh will last around 4.8 hours by which time there will be some solar, so likely most days I will do until around 6 p.m. before the solar starts to reduce, so nearly 11 p.m. before I will start using power at the high tariff for about ½ the year. And on bad days likely still break even. But the lack of info on the smart display has resulted in not getting the most out of the tariff.

flameport · 18 Apr 2024

ericmark said:
did not realise EV's could re-charge in 5 hours. Thought EV batteries were larger than 35 kWh seems I was wrong.

No one drives EVs until the battery is at 0% and than charges it to 100%.

Charging is whatever is required for the next day on top of whatever charge level it already has.

ericmark · 19 Apr 2024

I do see how one may not use all ones fuel every day, and to only have half a tank with liquid fuel is acceptable, but the whole idea is reversed, we would be happy to leave with ½ a tank when it takes a few minutes to refill, and where ever you fill up the price is similar, but with electric it takes so long to refill one wants to start with a full tank, and to fill up where fuel is cheap, fuel can vary in price by a factor of x10 that is a huge difference in price.

I only use an e-bike, and even with that I am very aware of how much fuel I have, I have called in at the station to recharge but it is so slow, so I end up pedalling due to running out of fuel, one has not got that option with a car, last peddle car I had was when about 5 years old.

Why Not Indeed · 19 Apr 2024

ericmark said:
with electric it takes so long to refill one wants to start with a full tank

You're missing the point of what flameport said, EV drivers don't go from near-0% to 100% every night. And if that's your use case then an EV is probably not for you.

ericmark · 19 Apr 2024

Why Not Indeed said:
You're missing the point of what flameport said, EV drivers don't go from near-0% to 100% every night. And if that's your use case then an EV is probably not for you.

So an EV is only any good if you only do low mileage, which if that is the case, then you don't need an EV anyway?

Harry Bloomfield · 19 Apr 2024

ericmark said:
So an EV is only any good if you only do low mileage, which if that is the case, then you don't need an EV anyway?

Either short trips, where you know you can get back home to a charger, or longer trips where you have very carefully planned where you can definitely get a recharge.

JohnW2 · 19 Apr 2024

ericmark said:
So an EV is only any good if you only do low mileage, which if that is the case, then you don't need an EV anyway?

In the absence of places where one can re-charge 'en-route' (e.g. at one's outgoing destination), the only situation in which they are ;no good' is if one needs to do journeys (without any in-journey re-charging) every day which use nearly the entire capacity of the battery.

If, for example, one undertakes such journeys every-other-day, then one has two nights to do the charging.

As flameport has said, in practice most EV owners will not start charging when the battery is close to 0% and/or will not need to charge it to 100% for "tomorrow's requirements".

However, as everyone knows, the one 'weakness' of EVs at present is the limited mileage-per-charge, coupled with time taken to re-charge and the current limited availability of places to charge - but one imagines that all those things will improve as time goes on. In some senses, we have been spoilt by being in a 'developed country' in which (for the last century or so) petrol/diesel has been 'available everywhere'. In some parts of the world, and particularly in the past, people have/have had similar issues having to plan journeys around where fuel was available (or, more commonly, carry lots of spare fuel in cans)

ericmark · 19 Apr 2024

I see, just need to carry a few cans of electric! However my point is if one can charge over night then 90% of EV cars can recharge over night, but if only 5 hours that is cutting it fine.

Octopus said:
Get your smart charging for just 7.5p/kWh including six hours every night between 11:30pm and 05:30am for your whole home.

EDF said:
Save cash and carbon while you sleep with 5 hours of off-peak electricity at just 9p per kWh

EON said:
Lower-priced electricity at 6.9p per kWh when you charge between 12am and 7am.†(†Next Drive Fixed V3 offers fixed priced overnight EV charging 6.9p/Kwh between 12am and 7am versus Next Flex standard variable tariff at 24.499p/kwh (national average and will vary by region).)

British Gas said:
Charge your electric car for less with our new Electric Driver tariff. Get cheap off-peak electricity at just 7.9p per kWh between 12am-5am.

seems odd it say 8.95p on my British Gas app.

However it does seem there are tariffs varying from 5 to 7 hours, there is also the price of peak which changes, and export which often changes if you also buy as well. and standing charge, and with a £75 exit fee not worth jumping, it was said that rates were changing in April, but my phone has rate blanked out

it did show

so maybe my rate has dropped? It says today spent £1.67 of which 59.2p is standing charge, so is it really worth worrying about? The solar software says imported 7.1 KWh and IHD says 5 kWh which would mean costing 21.6p per unit.

And this is my problem, the figures don't seem to match, not seen a bill, but I can understand the solar software being a little out, but that seems a lot out.

JohnW2 · 19 Apr 2024

ericmark said:
I see, just need to carry a few cans of electric! However my point is if one can charge over night then 90% of EV cars can recharge over night, but if only 5 hours that is cutting it fine.

It's not that you can't "charge a EV battery from 0% to 100%" (if that were needed) in one go, it's simply that many/most suppliers' tariffs are such that you probably could not do it all with "very-cheap electricity" - and it's for you to choose what tariff suits you best.

The things you go on to quote indicate that Octopus offer 6 hours of 'very cheap electricity' and EON offer 7 hours.

Harry Bloomfield · 19 Apr 2024

JohnW2 said:
However, as everyone knows, the one 'weakness' of EVs at present is the limited mileage-per-charge, coupled with time taken to re-charge and the current limited availability of places to charge - but one imagines that all those things will improve as time goes on. In some senses, we have been spoilt by being in a 'developed country' in which (for the last century or so) petrol/diesel has been 'available everywhere'. In some parts of the world, and particularly in the past, people have/have had similar issues having to plan journeys around where fuel was available (or, more commonly, carry lots of spare fuel in cans)

As I see it, EV's have strictly limited use. They are fine for the regular, short commutes, and the weekly shopping trips, beyond that there is no replacement for IC's. I have a big diesel, it is the only option for me, because it's main use is to tow a caravan. An EV just would not have the range to tow, even if it did, there are no facilites to recharge where I stay with the caravan. An EV would be good to have as well, for the shorter runs, but I could not justify one, so diesel it is.

JohnW2 · 19 Apr 2024

Harry Bloomfield said:
As I see it, EV's have strictly limited use. They are fine for the regular, short commutes, and the weekly shopping trips, beyond that there is no replacement for IC's.

That is true to some extent at present, but probably not as 'limiting' as you imply, since I imagine that a very high proportion of usage of private cars does relate to commuting, shopping and 'school runs' etc., for which current EVs are essentially fine.

For the time being, I suppose the ideal is probably some sort of 'hybrid' that can switch to an ICE on the (often rare) occasions on which one needs to undertake a long journey.

However, as I said, I can but presume that the situation will 'improve' over time. Charging facilities will certainly gradually become much more available but, as I implied, it's probably 'technological advances' that will ultimately make the most difference. Don't forget that it's not all that long ago that it was essentially unthinkable that batteries would ever be able to keep a car going for more than a mile or three!

Although there are obviously major issues associated with cars containing tanks of hydrogen/whatever, maybe the future will see us still having electric vehicles, but run from fuel cells rather than batteries that need to be recharged? If it transpires that such is the long-term future, then all the effort and cost of providing charging facilities will obviously have been 'wasted', but in the absence of crystal balls (and rapid technological advances), I don't think there's much we can do about that!

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Smart meter commissioning (Ed.)

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