This Will Not Work For The Patient

diy_fun_uk · 2025-12-04T15:10:31+0000

johnny2007 said:
It's important to keep the NHS public, however, the NHS needs full restructuring.
A former NHS manager tells me that before she left 2 years ago, in her trust 50% of the employees where non patient facing...50%!!!
Don't know how true that is, but even 25% sounds like too much to me.

Here's an analogy for you.

Bob is a tyre fitter. He's been one for 30 years.

When he first started in the game, he would complete the entire process by himself. Drive car into service bay, remove the wheel, remove the defective tyre, take a new tyre off the shelf, fit the new tyre to the wheel, balance it, put it back on the vehicle, drive the vehicle out the service bay, take payment from the customer.

Bob is due to retire. He'll be missed by his colleagues, colleagues that have gradually joined him over his 30 years.

Service bay vehicle access technician (they ensure Bob drives the vehicle into the bay in accordance with current legislation).
Wheel removal compliance officer (they ensure Bob removes the wheel in a manner that isn't detrimental to the vehicle).
Tyre removal compliance officer (they ensure Bob removes the tyre safely).
Tyre retrieval technician (they get a new tyre for Bob off the shelf and ensure it is safely delivered to him).
Tyre to wheel attachment technician (they ensure Bob is fitting the new tyre correctly).
Wheel balance adviser (they advise Bob on correct wheel balance procedure).
Wheel reattachment compliance officer (they ensure the wheel is reattached to the vehicle correctly).
Payment adviser (they ensure Bob has taken payment in accordance with the company's financial instructions).

Bob recalls the days when he often worked in the service area on his own, however he'll miss some of the 8 colleagues that now work alongside him.

In some but not all cases, that's the NHS.

carmanmemoranda · 2025-12-04T15:37:26+0000

johnny2007 said:
Surely.
I think it's important to repeat that in my opinion NHS should remain accessible to anyone entitled to it, but needs restructuring.
Private health insurance could come in as a bargaining chip for employers who decide to offer it, that's why I said "non compulsory".
Maybe there could be a tax relief for employers offering it; calculations at high level should be made to check if this is viable.
Personally I've had private health insurance for donkeys years and saved the NHS buckets of money.
Although some "smart" leftist declared that by having private insurance I have damaged the NHS

A lot of "private" health is provided on NHS equipment, by NHS staff.

Its not as simple as saying you've saved the NHS money.

securespark · 2025-12-04T15:45:52+0000

diy_fun_uk said:
If Reform get in with a decent majority, I suspect those who voted them in will gradually think 'oh feck ...' on a number of fronts.

And those who didn't......

charliegolf · 2025-12-04T18:12:11+0000

diy_fun_uk said:
Here's an analogy for you.

Bob is a tyre fitter. He's been one for 30 years.

When he first started in the game, he would complete the entire process by himself. Drive car into service bay, remove the wheel, remove the defective tyre, take a new tyre off the shelf, fit the new tyre to the wheel, balance it, put it back on the vehicle, drive the vehicle out the service bay, take payment from the customer.

Bob is due to retire. He'll be missed by his colleagues, colleagues that have gradually joined him over his 30 years.

Service bay vehicle access technician (they ensure Bob drives the vehicle into the bay in accordance with current legislation).
Wheel removal compliance officer (they ensure Bob removes the wheel in a manner that isn't detrimental to the vehicle).
Tyre removal compliance officer (they ensure Bob removes the tyre safely).
Tyre retrieval technician (they get a new tyre for Bob off the shelf and ensure it is safely delivered to him).
Tyre to wheel attachment technician (they ensure Bob is fitting the new tyre correctly).
Wheel balance adviser (they advise Bob on correct wheel balance procedure).
Wheel reattachment compliance officer (they ensure the wheel is reattached to the vehicle correctly).
Payment adviser (they ensure Bob has taken payment in accordance with the company's financial instructions).

Bob recalls the days when he often worked in the service area on his own, however he'll miss some of the 8 colleagues that now work alongside him.

In some but not all cases, that's the NHS.

Last time we used the NHS, it was:
Turn up
Book in
Triage nurse
x ray
Diagnosis
Treatment
Home.

Your 'analogy' isn't analogous. Nobody checked anyone performing those duties.

johnny2007 · 2025-12-04T18:31:54+0000

diy_fun_uk said:
Here's an analogy for you.

Bob is a tyre fitter. He's been one for 30 years.

When he first started in the game, he would complete the entire process by himself. Drive car into service bay, remove the wheel, remove the defective tyre, take a new tyre off the shelf, fit the new tyre to the wheel, balance it, put it back on the vehicle, drive the vehicle out the service bay, take payment from the customer.

Bob is due to retire. He'll be missed by his colleagues, colleagues that have gradually joined him over his 30 years.

Service bay vehicle access technician (they ensure Bob drives the vehicle into the bay in accordance with current legislation).
Wheel removal compliance officer (they ensure Bob removes the wheel in a manner that isn't detrimental to the vehicle).
Tyre removal compliance officer (they ensure Bob removes the tyre safely).
Tyre retrieval technician (they get a new tyre for Bob off the shelf and ensure it is safely delivered to him).
Tyre to wheel attachment technician (they ensure Bob is fitting the new tyre correctly).
Wheel balance adviser (they advise Bob on correct wheel balance procedure).
Wheel reattachment compliance officer (they ensure the wheel is reattached to the vehicle correctly).
Payment adviser (they ensure Bob has taken payment in accordance with the company's financial instructions).

Bob recalls the days when he often worked in the service area on his own, however he'll miss some of the 8 colleagues that now work alongside him.

In some but not all cases, that's the NHS.

Nice fairy tale.
That 1 tyre costs £500 instead of £50.
That's why the NHS is broke.

carmanmemoranda said:
A lot of "private" health is provided on NHS equipment, by NHS staff.

Its not as simple as saying you've saved the NHS money.

Spit it out without tiptoeing around the fire.
Have I saved the NHS money or not???

carmanmemoranda · 2025-12-04T18:36:29+0000

johnny2007 said:
Spit it out without tiptoeing around the fire.
Have I saved the NHS money or not???

Without knowing all your details I don't know.

It's not as simple as you want to make out.

The only people who really save the NHS money are those that don't use any of the NHS services. Directly or indrectly

Notch7 · 2025-12-04T18:38:30+0000

johnny2007 said:
That 1 tyre costs £500 instead of £50.
That's why the NHS is broke.

Nope.

imagine if over time people lived longer because healthcare developed and then there were more elderly people needing longer time in hospital

And then if social service cuts, mental health service cuts, youth service cuts, drug and alcohol services cut….imagine if all those people went to A and E because they had nowhere else to go.

But hey let’s blame it all on inefficiency

johnny2007 · 2025-12-04T18:41:04+0000

carmanmemoranda said:
Without knowing all your details I don't know.

It's not as simple as you want to make out.

The only people who really save the NHS money are those that don't use any of the NHS services. Directly or indrectly

Come on, don't be shy.
I know leftists like to swerve, but this is simple: I've had private health insurance for 30 odd years and used it a lot for scans, physio, consultations, blood tests, small surgeries and many GP consultations for advice.
Have I saved the NHS money?
Or have I made the NHS spend more money?

johnny2007 · 2025-12-04T18:42:44+0000

Notch7 said:
Nope.

imagine if over time people lived longer because healthcare developed and then there were more elderly people needing longer time in hospital

And then if social service cuts, mental health service cuts, youth service cuts, drug and alcohol services cut….imagine if all those people went to A and E because they had nowhere else to go.

But hey let’s blame it all on inefficiency

WTF are you on about?
Who said NHS needs to cut those services?

Highway Man · 2025-12-04T18:46:41+0000

I would sooner pay for good healthcare than receive bad healthcare for free. We should be paying for healthcare in my opinion and leave the NHS for just medical emergencies only. That is what they are good at.

Brigadier · 2025-12-04T18:55:30+0000

johnny2007 said:
Nice fairy tale.
That 1 tyre costs £500 instead of £50.
That's why the NHS is broke.

Spit it out without tiptoeing around the fire.
Have I saved the NHS money or not???

God forbid you get something that's not covered, and requires extended treatment, stays, aftercare, major operations.

Hopefully you took out your insurance with no pre-existing or excluded conditions.

carmanmemoranda · 2025-12-04T19:07:10+0000

johnny2007 said:
Come on, don't be shy.
I know leftists like to swerve, but this is simple: I've had private health insurance for 30 odd years and used it a lot for scans, physio, consultations, blood tests, small surgeries and many GP consultations for advice.
Have I saved the NHS money?
Or have I made the NHS spend more money?

I don't know.

Were they NHS doctors doing private work?

Were they using NHS equipment?

charliegolf · 2025-12-04T19:56:32+0000

Highway Man said:
I would sooner pay for good healthcare than receive bad healthcare for free. We should be paying for healthcare in my opinion and leave the NHS for just medical emergencies only. That is what they are good at.

Interesting that your view, valid as it is, flies in the face of every developed country in the world save for the US. Wonder why the whole world has got it so wrong, and you, Nige and the Mango Mussolini have it right?

Highway Man · 2025-12-04T20:01:48+0000

charliegolf said:
Interesting that your view, valid as it is, flies in the face of every developed country in the world save for the US. Wonder why the whole world has got it so wrong, and you, Nige and the Mango Mussolini have it right?

I picked up my mum the other day from hospital in Hull after having a valve replacement on her heart. I was completely disgusted with the state the NHS was in. People laid in the corridor on our way out on beds and everyone walking past them, they were obviously very sick people in need of care. I wouldn't want to have this sort of care and would gladly pay to be treat correctly and with dignity.

Notch7 · 2025-12-04T20:56:37+0000

johnny2007 said:
WTF are you on about?
Who said NHS needs to cut those services?

They have already been massively cut….the result is that these people end up in A&E

This Will Not Work For The Patient

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