Sleeved earthwire... again
- Thread starter SUNRAY
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Recently prohibited. Can't remember exactly where.
514.4.2
Not permitted unless for a PEN conductor, which it won't be in any normal circuit wiring.
Not permitted unless for a PEN conductor, which it won't be in any normal circuit wiring.
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What Flameport says goes....
I would never use a G/Y cable for anything other than it's intended purpose.
No matter what anyone else says, bodging it with an oversleeve or a bit of tape is just not right.
Do it right first time, if your short of cores then get another cable.
I would never use a G/Y cable for anything other than it's intended purpose.
No matter what anyone else says, bodging it with an oversleeve or a bit of tape is just not right.
Do it right first time, if your short of cores then get another cable.
How many photos cells have an earth wire sleeved brown out there? Loads I'd say...
Would use 4 core these days and not use the earth, strange ay
Would use 4 core these days and not use the earth, strange ay
I keep 3 core flex on the van that has brown black and blue cores for photocells.
... and you would undoubtedly be right, but not just photocells - also timer fans, PIRs, wall stats and various other things. Quite common, but never very 'nice' and no longer even 'allowed' by BS7671
It is a little ironic, but the 'earth' often will be needed (to comply with BS7671), even if it's supplying something Class II. Were not the case, the ideal would be for cables to come with one of the cores a 'neutral' colour (e.g. white), so that it could be sleeved G/Y when a CPC was needed, but sleeved brown or blue if no CPC were needed but a S/L was!
A bit like I just suggested (but white!). However, as I implied, what about the theoretical BS7671 requirement for a CPC to be run to the photocell?
The flex will be a short section from a connection point to the photocell, the cpc will be available there.
My apologies, I knew it would be this can of worms.
I'm happy with the flex between the connexion point and device not containing an earth wire if not required, in fact I'd rather expect the 'fixed' flex on a pir device to not include an earth wire (and is my experience is black or red for 3rd wire [blue or yellow in old money]).
Just as I'd expect 2 core flex on other classll devices such as power tools.
I'm happy with the flex between the connexion point and device not containing an earth wire if not required, in fact I'd rather expect the 'fixed' flex on a pir device to not include an earth wire (and is my experience is black or red for 3rd wire [blue or yellow in old money]).
Just as I'd expect 2 core flex on other classll devices such as power tools.
Yes, that's consistent with common sense. However, I suspect that there will be some pedants about who would cite the 'requirement' for a CPC to be run 'to every point' in a circuit (which they would argue includes the photocell itself)
Indeed. I would personally also be very happy with that - but see what I've just written about 'pedants'
Quite so. We've discussed that before, and it's not really clear (at least, not to me) what BS7671 intends should be done in such situations - to run an additional CPC to a piece of equipment that didn't need it would be particularly silly
Well I suppose that strictly according to the big book a device permanently connected to the installation should contain an earth wire as the only listed exception to the rule is a bulb holder. However if the PIR were to be connected using a plug/socket arrangement it would negate the exclusion.Indeed. I would personally also be very happy with that - but see what I've just written about 'pedants'
Quite so. We've discussed that before, and it's not really clear (at least, not to me) what BS7671 intends should be done in such situations - to run an additional CPC to a piece of equipment that didn't need it would be particularly silly
The requirement in BS7671 applies to "points and acessories", the definition of accessory explicitly excludes current using equipment.
So we come down to the definition of "point". IIRC a point is defined as something like "a termination of the fixed-wiring intended for connecting equipment" or some such.
If a device is connected directly to fixed wiring, then the input connections of that device clearly form a "point". If the device comes with a non-replacable cord that is terminated in an outlet box then the outlet box is clearly the "point".
The slightly fuzzier question is if the current using equipment is connected to an outlet box by a field-fitted cord. I would argue that if the cord is short and not fixed to the building (other than by being clamped where it enters the equipment and the outlet boxx) then the "point" is still the outlet box, but others may argue the opposite.
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