1 Pipe 2 Pipe towel rail *ock-up – help please!

[BriscsWK]

We have a problem Houston….

We have just had bathroom refurbished and a new towel rail added to the system.

Our heating system is a one pipe system with two circuits for flow and return – please see diagram. The towel rail has been plumbed in to the circuit as if it is part of the one pipe system (i.e. both flow and return pipes from towel rail plumbed to same pipe) but unfortunately it is actually plumbed in to the flow (or return, presently I’m afraid I’m unsure which) to the radiator in the downstairs WC below bathroom.

As you may guess things aren’t ‘working’ so well…

1st, Obviously if the downstairs WC rad is off then no flow happens at all to the towel rail;

2nd, When the downstairs WC rad is on then the towel rail only gets slightly warm implying little/no flow through it;

I see three possible solutions as follows (shown on diagram as in colour as A, B and C):

A = To pipe across the flow and return leading to the downstairs WC rad so the towel rail always has flow.

Possible problem: As currently little/no flow to towel rail would this persist in this arrangement

B = To re-pipe the towel rail individually to the flow and return for the downstairs WC rad.

Possible problem: Does this guarantee that the problems of towel rail not heating being overcome?

C = To re-pipe the towel rail directly to the one pipe system

Possible problem: Does this guarantee that the problems of towel rail not heating being overcome?

Does anyone have any constructive advice on which may be the best/wisest solution?

‘A’ is very much the least problematical option with ‘B’ and ‘C’ causing problems as far as laying pipe runs, taking up tiled flooring etc.

Yes I’m fully aware that the towel rail should have been properly tested long before the tiled flooring was laid but I’m really after any help anyone maybe able to give.

Many thanks,
Stuart

View media item 13985

 

[Whitespirit66]

Have you tried balancing the system? (See FAQs)

How long are the tails to the new rad (the new pipes linking the new rad to the existing circuit)?

One pipers don't always work well if the tails to the rads are long. Keep the tails as short as poss.

 

[doitall]

Sorry it will never work as is.

B is the nearest solution, D is the correct solution.

Neither the cloak or bathroom radiator has an open loop, therefore either will be affected by the other.

The pipe should be connected between the flow and return valves to complete the loop.

The piece of pipe between where the bathroom radiator tees off should be removed.

 

[BriscsWK]

Tks for responses so far.

Whitespirit66 answers as follows:

The tails to the WC rad are about 7 metres.

The tails off this circuit are about 1.5 m to towel rad

doitall answers as follows:

Not certain waht you mean by 'D' being correct solution?

I’m not quite with your last two sentences. Do you mean that flow and return to both wc and bathroom should be independent from original one pipe system? i.e. as per scenario ‘C’ obviously with the tails from bathroom to WC flow and return removed (Sorry I assumed this would happen in my diag under ‘C’)?

Tks again

 

[doitall]

If you look at the other two loops, you will notice the pipe continues under the radiators, it doesn't for the cloak or bathroom radiator, when it should.

Where you have teed off and run two pipes to the bathroom radiator, you need to cut and cap the piece of pipe between the tees.

 

[BriscsWK]

Hi doitall

OK Do you mean as the attached diagram 2 ?

View media item 13986
But I think in essence that is what I have proposed in option ‘A’ though drawn schematically different?

Or do you mean as per diagram 3?

View media item 13987
But doesn’t this mean that they are either both on or neither on?

Would diagram 4 be the optimal solution and would it work?

View media item 13988
Tks and sorry if I’m being slow.

Cheers

Stuart

 

[doitall]

3 is the closest, but you haven't connected the loop under the radiators, see the other4 rads

Personally I would also take the link pipe out between the other tees in the 2nd loop and make it all one loop, where the pipe is shown dropping to the cloak and bathroom rads, (you have an arrow right on the pipe in question.

 

[BriscsWK]

Tks,

When you say ‘3 is the closest, but you haven’t connected the loops under the rads’ if you make those connections isn’t it the same as 2, or do you mean the loops have to be connected right next to the rads not more remotely?

Stuart

 

[doitall]

You did the cloak rad right in 2, but not the bathroom rad, or remove the like between the tees.

If you click on my profile send me an email and I'll do a drawing for you.

 

[Whitespirit66]

Untitled

• Whitespirit66
• 26 Aug 2009
• 1

Remove the short length of pipe A, which will mean that the pipes to towel rail and downstairs WC become an extended part of the one pipe system, and not just tails off of it. (N.B. 7.5 metre tails on one pipe are too long)

Next, add a piece of pipe B under the downstairs WC rad. This will mean that when you turn this rad off, it doesn't affect the towel rail.

Its really quite easy to get this system working efficiently.

 

[doitall]

That's exactly the same as the drawing I sent the OP Whitespirit 66

Except you forgot the link pipe between the two tees for the bathroom rad.

 

[Whitespirit66]

Great minds think alike

Don't agree with you that I forgot to link the pipe between the two tees though.

Have a look at the arrow on the image below, its already linked across the two tees.

Untitled

• Whitespirit66
• 26 Aug 2009
• 1

 

[doitall]

But that liink should be removed, and the by-pass pipe fitted under the bathroom rad, the same as your A & B

 

[Whitespirit66]

Yes, he could remove it, and link under the rad, but if those towel rail tails are only short, he may get away without doing that.

OP should remove pipe A, and add pipe B, and see how it goes.

 

[doitall]

I think it will just by-pass the bathroom rad, which was the reason the op posted in the first place.