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150metre supply to outbuilding

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by speccy, 11 Aug 2021.

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  1. speccy

    speccy

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    I wish to install a summerhouse in my uncles garden for us to stay, it's a long narrow garden and ive worked out the water supply will run about 150metres.

    I would appreciate anyones thoughts here:

    Winter frost - This will be in Devon coast so whilst we seldom have bad winters, i dont really want to run it +800mm depth lots and lots of tree routes are in the way. Can i run it surfaced? Will ice split a plastic pipe if it froze?

    Pressure drop if we (in summer house and uncles home) both decide to have a shower at the same time? - do i use a storage tank instead to feed the summer house to negate pressure drop to my uncle and family. And then i just need to gravity feed the water or pump it?

    Will a 150m run from the house affect the pressure at the other end?

    Heating - what's the cheapest way to heat the water? Remote coil on solar/mins or a small electric heater which heats water on demand?

    Any other thoughts here appreciated.
     
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  3. oldbutnotdead

    oldbutnotdead

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    You have to bury the water pipe. You can use the same trench for power and data to your summerhouse....and you'll need a connection to the sewage system (mains or septic tank).
    Pressure drop-depends on what the flow and pressure are like at the main, what size the supply pipe is, where you tee off. If 3bar plus and 30l/min dynamic then you'll be ok, less than that & you may want to look at tank/pump options.
    Unless you like cold showers you'll have to heat the water, if the power supply for the summerhouse is coming from the main house and there's an electric shower in the main house already you"ll be on thin ice with any sort of instant electric heater. Cheapest to install will be trad copper cylinder with an immersion heater, header tanks etc., may be worth looking at PV solar to power the imm heater (but that involves inverters, connections to grid supply, lots of conversations about cable size, exporting earth)- easier to get a dual coil cylinder and use wet solar panels. Long-term cheapest to run might be an LPG combi or system boiler, that can deliver space heating as well, lot depends on duration of occupancy (we talking all year or a few weeks now and again).
     
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  4. speccy

    speccy

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    I just can't bury the pipe as the garden perimeter is all large trees 100years plus and up the middle is patio decking brick sleeper tiers it would cost estimating 20k easy in landscaping to restore.
    Do i have to bury the pipe by law? If it suffered some frost which i doubt would be bad here would the pipe split?

    Re pressure it already drops to a trickle if the kitchen sink is on with shower at same time. So what i don't want is our remote shower interfering with people in the main house vice versa. So i guess here my only option is actually a remote tank that fills up perhaps on a timer out of normal waking hours perhaps? But then my next concern water in a storage tank would not be classed as not safe to drink?


    Why thin ice? Power draw?

    Whats a 'trad' copper cylinder, trade? I may well use some solar hybrid to power and heat the water tank. I appreciate the thoughts here.

    Its a 2 person occupancy long term.

    Looking at fuelling options

    Oil - Oil system boiler - standard rads and copper cylinder with coil from boiler to heat tank.
    LPG or Propage 47kg cylinders - im just not keen on gas being anywhere near the building due to the inherent risk of explosion.
    Electric - concerned of the pull in Winter time on Electric hob/ Immersion heater/ Radiator / Tv etc. That's alot of cable size over 150metres guessing 16mm+

    Im feeling it's Oil or electric. Oil being a PITA as i have to put an oil tank in and i guess notify the relevant people etc
    Electric i guess means a good £1500 for cable alone but then i have no other issues. Im just wondering how much ill spend a month heathing the place with electricity as opposed to oil.

    I see SCAT boilers mentioned here

    https://bestlandscapeideas.com/warm-summer-house-all-year-round-choose-a-suitable-boiler/

    (I thought SCAT referred to an unpleasant term of using human excrement in certain instances, but we digress)
     
    Last edited: 11 Aug 2021
  5. Youve got people to notify anyway - Planning Permission, Building Regs, possibly the sewage undertaker (have you decided what you would do about sewage?)
     
  6. oldbutnotdead

    oldbutnotdead

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    You have zero choice about the water pipe if you go legit with planning permission, building regs etc. Moling is an option (not cheap but maybe cheaper than messing with the decking).
    You have to consider sewerage as well- that'll be harder work to mole.
    Oil or gas heating will be much cheaper in the long run than electric, and yes it's the current draw that limits you (100A to the house, smallest worthwhile flash heater 40A)...
    This sounds like a major long-term investment project, you have to solve the problems and budget for the solutions not just shelve them as too difficult cos they won't go away on their own.
    I'd also suggest that it isn't a wise first DIY project to undertake...
    EDIT Running a cooker from 47kg bottles is doable, running heating will get you into weekly deliveries of bottles. So big LPG tank or oil tank. And how will the energy deliverer get their tanker into the back garden to fill either tank?
     
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  7. flameport

    flameport

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    If electric heating and electric cooking are involved, more like 70mm² as a minimum.

    Double or triple that and you will be somewhat nearer to reality.
    Plus the same again to have the trench dug and the ducting and cable put into it.
     
  8. speccy

    speccy

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    Sewage is least my of worries would just fit a small approved STW and that would flow into the same stream the lane uses currently.
     
  9. Notch7

    Notch7

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    What would the voltage drop be on 150metres!

    sounds like a big cable to me.
     
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  11. dilalio

    dilalio

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    There's also the question of usage.
    If it's occupied with sleeping quarters, you'll need permission for that.
    It's important as well... Think of access for emergency services in the event of a fire or medical attention!
     
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  13. speccy

    speccy

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    OK done my calcs says 35mm so you were over i was under by halfway ;)

    Multicore 90°C Armoured Thermosetting Insulated Cables
    Tables Apply to: H6942XL, H6943XL, H6944XL, H6945XL, Tuff Sheath,

    Voltage:230V

    Load:13kW / 56.52A

    Length:150m

    Method of Installation:In free air or on a perforated cable tray

    Cable Size:35mm²


    Comes in at £2000 for Cable
     
  14. Notch7

    Notch7

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    I’ve found quickbit good for cables.

    35mm 3 core comes in at £1744 incl vat

    https://quickbit.co.uk/swa-cable-3-core-35mm-per-metre/
     
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  15. oldbutnotdead

    oldbutnotdead

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    The cable tray is going to look fugly nailed to the trees :)
     
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  16. Agile

    Agile

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    I think that your first step should be to get a design drawn up and apply for planning permission. That might be easier it it was to be occupied by a "Graney".

    Assuming the garden dwellers are going to pay their way then you need sub meters for electricity, gas if used and water!

    But if the occupiers are to pay for building it then they will need a suitable lease to legally cover its existence! Or better to actually buy the land with access rights.
     
  17. speccy

    speccy

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    Aha "Granny" yes ;) Poirot is hot on my heels here check you out :LOL:(y)

    Yes drawn up some plans and designs already cheers for your thoughts here.
     
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