1st fix

[Johnmelad]

Doing a referb and electrician has just finished his 1st fix, is this OK work?

Untitled

• Johnmelad
• 12 May 2013
• 1

 

[RF Lighting]

Where does the wire that dissapears bottom left go to?

Does your electrician not own a spirit level or even a straight bit of wood?

Are you aware this installation will look dreadful when it's all finished?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

That's a pyss poor effort of complying to requirement 134.1.1 and I dare say once the kitchen is fitted, that effort will decrease in it's already low levels of quality.
Other than the erection of the circuit being very shabby, are there certain elements, where cables do not look to within the permitted safe zones (with regards to the evidence on the picture).

 

[RF Lighting]

The more I look the more I see cables not in safe zones.

It looks looks like a heck of a lot of concentrated loading on one point of the ring.

Also is the spacing between the boxes equal? It doesn't look it.

I certainly wouldn't accept this work if it were in my house...

 

[Johnmelad]

Where does the wire that dissapears bottom left go to?

Does your electrician not own a spirit level or even a straight bit of wood?

Don't know.

Customers electrician I am just doing the rest of the referb.

Just did not look right to me.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Doing a referb and electrician has just finished his 1st fix, is this OK work?

No.

Apart from the appalling quality, there are a number of cables which are not in the prescribed zones.

Not only is this not OK, it is illegal.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

It's not clear from the photos, but it looks like the plasterer is going to have to add a lot of plaster to bring the wall level with those boxes.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Given where the cables are he can't add any plaster at all.

 

[Johnmelad]

Thanks for the feedback, can we be more precise on what is illegal etc. Have just emailed the customer suggesting she withholds payment based on what has been said.

Will need more info on why she should not pay.

 

[plugwash]

BS7671 aka "the wiring regs" is a document written by the IET and widely taken as the accepted standard for electrical work in the UK. However it is not in itself a law. BS7671 defines "safe zones" where concealed cables should be routed* and therefore where people working on the installation in the future can expect to find said concealed cables.

Unfortunately the law is rather vauge, afaict just about all it has to say about the techical details of electrical work is.

"P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

Now most people here would argue that running unprotected concealed cables in unexpected places is not making "reasonable provision" for protection against injury but in the unlikely event that things went to court you can bet that the cowboy tradesman would have a scumbag lawyer aruging the opposite.

There also appears to me to be a potential hole in that the requirement lists "persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation" but does not appear to make any mention of people doing work on the property that is unrelated to the electrical installation and those people would be the main people put at risk by cowboys who ignore safe zones.

IANAL, this is not legal advice.

* There are acceptable ways of installing concealed cabling outside the safe zones, for example using steel conduit or using cables with an inbuilt earthed metal layer but I highly doubt that is the case here, that cable looks to me like ordinary" twin and earth" cable.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It's not clear from the photos, but it looks like the plasterer is going to have to add a lot of plaster to bring the wall level with those boxes.

I guess dot'n'dab plasterboard walls!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

BS7671 requirements for electrical installations, this in it's own is not a statuary document, but it will have some clout in a court of law.
But we are not in a court of law just yet, what we have is a bit of a mess, that by picture evidence does not comply to BS7671, this is not irreparable at these time.
I would find out the electricians credentials and what type experience and knowledge and skill (though that looks lacking) of installing this type of system, they have.
If this then proves they should not be doing the work, then therefore they should not be doing the work. (off you you go)
If they can offer satisfactory proof that this is within their capabilities, then throw the book at them (the big green one (BS7671)).
Ask them to sort it, if the client is still happy to continue with Rex the Chancer.
I personally would want to know under what conditions was the electrician employed, was it someone they know from the pub going cheap and no background knowledge taken? If so, the client wants a whipping with the book also!

 

[JohnW2]

There also appears to me to be a potential hole in that the requirement lists "persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation" but does not appear to make any mention of people doing work on the property that is unrelated to the electrical installation and those people would be the main people put at risk by cowboys who ignore safe zones.

Yes, I've always thought that and, at first sight, it would seem to be a very substantial (and totally unnecessary) 'potential hole'. In relation to the people most at potential risk (house occupants etc.), I've wondered whether 'operating' was meant to include them - but, if so, it's awful wording for a bit of legislation.

If there is any saving grace, I suppose that the majority of things that would put house occupants etc. at risk would also put at risk those doing 'maintaining or altering', so house occupants etc. may effectively be 'covered'. However, and particularly in the context of this thread (safe zones), it's 'other trades' who might have missed out most from the wording, since it would often/usually be easy to argue that there were not 'operating, maintaining or altering the installation'.

We moan about the wording of the OSG, and to some extent BS7671, but it is even more shocking when there is an apparent problem with a one-sentence bit of legislation!

Kind Regards, John



.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

It's not clear from the photos, but it looks like the plasterer is going to have to add a lot of plaster to bring the wall level with those boxes.

I guess dot'n'dab plasterboard walls!

Oh yeah. Forgot about those. I'd hate to be the one to have to fit them.

 

[Johnmelad]

No Dot and Dab.

Trician is a member of NICEIC and I have checked him on their website.

Annoying thing is, I suggested him to the customer based on previous work he did on another job last year.