2 Gang to 3 Gang question

[Drawllimuk]

Ok, Ok,
I know that this question will have probably been asked a thousand times, so I'm gonna make it 1001!!

I live in a late 60's early 70's property. I currently have a 2 gang switch in the kitchen that I want to convert to a 3 gang smart switch.

Here's my issues:

1. The back box is 16mm (not an issue, but the internal wall it's on is house brick and it's gonna make a mess angle grinding the cutout deeper!!)
2. I am currently remodelling and have pulled the ceiling down so no issue getting to the cables. That's when I spot the rabbit warren of cables. The lights have no ceiling roses and so have been connected in terminal boxes. My OCD has kicked in!
3. I need to add the outside light to the switch so need to change it to a three gang.

My question is, how can I do it, without having three 2&E in the wall? I also know that most smart switches require a N so can I do this?
I am attaching a sketch of what I think I know it's wrong!!

Please Help!!

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[flameport]

angle grinding the cutout deeper

Drill and chisel makes a lot less mess.

 

[sparkwright]

Drawlilmuk, are you saying you want a neutral to be present at the switch as well, for a smart switch?

If you do require one, are the switch cables in conduit? A house of your age tends to have conduit, so drawing in another cable may be possible.

 

[Drawllimuk]

Drawlilmuk, are you saying you want a neutral to be present at the switch as well, for a smart switch?

If you do require one, are the switch cables in conduit? A house of your age tends to have conduit, so drawing in another cable may be possible.

Hi sparkwright, ideally yes I would like a neutral so I don't have to have a capacitor! The cables are in conduit, however the conduit is no longer in the wall as I have chipped the plaster away to expose the conduit. Am I right in assuming that I could change one of the t&e into a 3&e and bring a neutral that way?

 

[Drawllimuk]

Ok, Ok. Many thanks to everyone that helped. I followed the diagram that you posted @EFLImpudence and it works at treat. I now have one more favour to ask this fantastic forum. I now need to convert that to a three gang Smart Switch. Can anyone help? Or am I being stupid?


I even pulled through a neutral in case...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Firstly the switch:

The Red supply Live (the one linked to all three switches) goes to L.
The other three wires - Yellow, Black and other Red - go to L1, L2 & L3 in which ever order you want them.

What is the part in the diagram to the left of the switch supposed to be?

______________________________________


Your pictures show that cables are not as you thought.
There is not two Twin & Earth cables but one Twin(-core) & Earth and one Three-core and Earth.

Therefore you have a spare Blue wire which, presumably, could be connected to Neutral at its other end if you wanted.
I suppose there is a possibility that it already is but I wouldn't think so.

 

[SUNRAY]

Firstly the switch:

The Red supply Live (the one linked to all three switches) goes to L.
The other three wires - Yellow, Black and other Red - go to L1, L2 & L3 in which ever order you want them.

What is the part in the diagram to the left of the switch supposed to be?

______________________________________


Your pictures show that cables are not as you thought.
There is not two Twin & Earth cables but one Twin(-core) & Earth and one Three-core and Earth.

Therefore you have a spare Blue wire which, presumably, could be connected to Neutral at its other end if you wanted.
I suppose there is a possibility that it already is but I wouldn't think so.

I even pulled through a neutral in case...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thanks. Missed that somehow.

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks. Missed that somehow.

Join the club... I blame covid... Man U... old age, in fact anything I can get away with

 

[Drawllimuk]

@SUNRAY , i just think that I have confused matters!! I did follow how @EFLImpudence showed, only difference is that I used as you said a 3 core and earth, therefore leaving the blue spare to use as a neutral. It's connected to the neutral line at the other end ready. So I am just checking if anyone knows if I can use that configuration to wire a smart switch...

 

[SUNRAY]

So it appears you have this:

I'd say well done and if the neutral is required for the smart switch it's ready and waiting.
However the unit you show doesn't appear to need it:

Earth not shown for clarity.
Remember to add an earth wire to the new switch if it's a metal front plate.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So I am just checking if anyone knows if I can use that configuration to wire a smart switch...

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Drawllimuk]

Not sure what you mean.

At this point, I don't think I do. Time to stop trying to do a thousand things at once, take a breather and triple check everything...

 

[EFLImpudence]