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2 non socket spurs from one ring socket

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Gravyspoon, 10 Dec 2016.

  1. Gravyspoon

    Gravyspoon

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    Hi,

    Just want to know whether something is compliant with the regs or not.

    I want to add a light into our conservatory as we do not currently have one. in the wall next to the door to the conservatory is a double socket on the ring main. there is also a fused switch spurred off of the socket with a 3amp fuse supplying the combi boiler.

    My plan was to come through the wall directly behind the socket and put a fused switch in the conservatory directly behind the socket in the kitchen. I was then going to use this to feed a switch at normal height controlling two wall lights.

    This was all before I realised that the boiler switch was a spur off of this socket. So....

    1. Can I legally add this second fused switch through to the conservatory using 2.5mm t&e between the socket and the fused switch and then 1.0mm t&e for the rest with a 5 amp fuse?
    2. Is it OK to add a light to a ring main for the sockets?
    3. With Part P in mind, am I OK to do this work between the kitchen and the conservatory and then add the new wiring in the conservatory? The only consealed wire will be the wire that passes straight through the wall - the rest will be in decorative trunking running directly between lights and switches.
    My other simpler option was to simply bring flex cable through the wall into the kitchen, fit a plug and plug it in to the existing socket. have a feeling this is frowned up on?
     
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  3. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

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    Yes that's fine, you're not going to overload the cable or unbalanced the ring with those loads attached. And I doubt the disconnection time would be exceeded, as the length of run is short, although theoretically you should check.
    So 1 yes
    2 yes but update the labels in the fuse box
    3 it's fine
     
  4. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    I agree with the above, but would just add one practical point - that you might have some difficulty getting the four conductors (two for ring, existing spur and the new spur) into the terminals of the socket. If that proved to be a problem, there are alternative strategies which could be considered.

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  5. Gravyspoon

    Gravyspoon

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    Thank you to both of you for your replies, very much appreciated. Very good point regarding the practicalities of getting 4 conductors in the holes.

    Always interested to hear alternatives if you would be willin to share them with me?

    Thanks again for your help.
     
  6. deadshort

    deadshort

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    MK sockets and fuse connection units will accommodate 4x 2.5mm conductors.

    Kind regards,

    DS
     
  7. Gravyspoon

    Gravyspoon

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    Thank you to both of you for your replies, very much appreciated. Very good point regarding the practicalities of getting 4 conductors in the holes.

    Always interested to hear alternatives if you would be willin to share them with me?

    Thanks again for your help.
     
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  9. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As DS has said, the terminals of more decent sockets can accommodate at least 4 x 2.5mm² conductors. However, how easy you would find it to deal with four sets of conductors is really down to how experienced you are.
    Well, none would be ideal, but ... if it were conveniently positioned you could take your new spur from the load side of the FCU currently serving the combi-boiler. Indeed, although it would, strictly speaking, being contrary to regulations, with the small loads you are talking about, you could also consider taking the new spur from the supply side of that FCU - but the only real advantage in that would be that you would then not lose your conservatory lights if/when you ever switched the combi-boiler's FCU off.

    However, if you are comfortable with the 4-conductor issue, that's the simplest, and probably best, way to go.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  10. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

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    Good point, I think you'd need a 35mm deep back box for sure!
     
  11. OwainDIYer

    OwainDIYer

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    Or extend the ring: connect from the supply side of the boiler FCU to the conservatory FCU and return back to the socket. Remove one side of the ring from the socket and connect to the return wire from the conservatory. Even a shallow box should take 2 terminal strips or wagos and no terminal will have more than 2 wires in.
     
  12. Gravyspoon

    Gravyspoon

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    Thank you all for your assistance and advice. very much appreciated!

    I drilled through directly behind the kitchen socket and put a fsu on the conservatory wall and ran the light switch wiring from there.

    The 4 conductors-1 hole was doable altough tight when refitting the socket. I have ordered a 10mm pattress extender to create more space.

    Interested in the comment about extending the ring. I think I've understood you correctly. So FSUs become a part of the ring main? And it is acceptable to join the two lengths of t&e with the choc block connectors to completed the cable (instead of running all new cable to the next socket)? I think that is what you mean. Too late for me, but intesting alternative for the future...
     
  13. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Indeed. Any accessory literally wired 'in the ring' becomes part of the ring. Although most commonly a socket, that accessory can also be an FCU, a junction box or (give or take a little quibbling about a literal interpretation of the regulations) a switch etc.

    Kind Regards, John
     
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