2 Way, 2 gang lighting switch problem

[GK1]

I've looked through the articles but don't see a solution to my problem. I attach two images - one that shows the upstairs two gang switch and one that shows the downstairs two way switch. It is a Hamilton with a single moulded connection block with two rows of L1, L2, C points.

In both up and downstairs, there is no connection between the L2 points. All others are connected. Downstairs, both switches (L&R) control the downstairs light in a toggled fashion. Hmmm. Not right. neither controls the upstairs light. Bad.

The upstairs left switch control the upstairs light (as in a single switch). The right switch control the downstairs light ok (as in a 2 way switch). What is the correct way to wire these units up to get correct control from both up and downstairs?

Thanks.

 

[DIYnot]

GK1's pictures:

Upstairs
Downstairs

 

[pdcelec]

What were you doing to the wires immediately prior to them not working?

 

[GK1]

Nothing. This is how I found the wiring when I moved in recently. I'm now in the process of investigating this problem.

 

[ltfc]

Looks to me like the two reds in the downstairs switch are crossed, dificult to find a fault with a photo but thats how it looks.
Switch off at mains and swap them over see what happens.

 

[GK1]

I 've tried that - swapped the Common red and L1 red over. All that happens is that the downstairs switching is moved from switch 1 to switch 2. Still no control of the upstairs light from downstairs.

It seems to me that there must be a wire missing from the L2 point downstairs to the L2 point upstairs. See photos. Can someone compare to a working 2-way, 2 gang switch system?

Thanks

 

[Lectrician]

I suspect that the downstairs light is only meant to be one way operated. The upstairs is meant to be two way operated.

Someone has tried to alter this is the mean while, causing your fault.

Any chance of telling us what cables are in eash pendent up and own??

I suspect the hall switch should be a 2 gang, and the upstairs a single gang, 2 wayed to below.
If this is the case, the downstairs switch is wired coirrectly, except the two reds are back-to-front, interchange them.

Upstairs, should be a 2way 1 gang switch. both reds to L1, blue and black to L2 and yellow to com.

Very difficult to say exactly - would be easy on site!

Looks like you have no neutral, which is a blessing - you can put the sires where you like, and try every combination with out risk or a short...and bang! THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO PENDENTS!!

 

[GK1]

I've sent 3 photos - one showing the Upstairs ceiling rose wiring and the pendant. The two wires going up from the Upstairs switch are Black (Common) and Red (L1).

Downstairs pendant wiring is behind the Ceiling board. But there is an ordinary 3 core flat that attaches to the pendant fitting.

I've re-taken both switch unit photos for clarity. So to get control of the upstairs light I need to swap the two reds downstairs and in the Upstairs switch unit:

1. take the red that is in the downstairs gang Common to the upstairs gang L1 point (with the other red),
2. take the yellow out of the downstairs gang L2 and move it to the upstairs gang Common, and
3. Take the Blue that is in the downstairs gang L1 and move to the upstairs gang L2 and
4. Take the Black in the upstairs gang Common and move to upstairs gang L2 to join with the Blue.

This will leave the downstairs gang empty. Hence your comment about it needing to be a 1-gang switch. Is my understanding correct?

And if I wanted to make it all 2-way, 2-ganged - what would I need to do?

Many thanks

 

[breezer]

or you could send the pics to a "web host" see this read all of it, its usualy quicker than admin are (sorry admin)

 

[GK1]

Photo of the Downstairs 2gang, 2 way switch unit. Note that has L2 empty:

Photo of the Upstairs 2gang, 2 way switch. It has two separate gangs. The one controling the upstairs light does not have L2 connected. The Red wire with the inline connector comes from downstairs and feeds into the Common at the top of the photo. The black wire going to the pendant (not easily seen) has a red sleeve and feeds into the Common at the bottom of the photo.

Photo of the upstairs pendant. You can see the black wire amongst the looped reds:

 

[Steve]

you dont have one of these swanky new 2 megapixel camera phones then?

 

[sparxfly]

uptairs pendant just looks like a normal 3 plate method, used for a 1 way switched circuit. UPSTAIRS SHOULD BE A 2WAY 1 GANG SWITCH SHOULDNT IT............SO WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS TAKEN THE COMMON AND L1 AND PUT IT IN TO A 2G2W SWITCH UPSTAIRS, WHEN THEY SHOULD OF PUT THESE TOGETHER WITH L1 AND L2 OF THE 3CORE FOR DOWNSTAIRS SWITCH AND CONNECTED IT TO A 1G 2WAY SWITCH.
SO GET A 1GANG 2WAY SWITCH FOR UPSTAIRS, PUT YELLOW IN COMMON, RED FROM THE 3CORE IN L1 WITH COMMON FROM THE LIGHT AND BLUE WITH SWITCHED LIVE FROM THE LIGHT AND SEE HOW YOU GET ON. REMEMBER THESE ARE ONLY LIVE AND SWITCHED LIVE CONNECTIONS SO NOTHING WILL TRIP BREAKER OUT.................

___________________________
moderator

sparxfly, please don't SHOUT

 

[Lectrician]

Downstairs will be a 2 gang switch - hall and landing.

Landing switch will 1 gang, 2 way. Switching landing only.

This assumes my theory is correct anyway!

In the downstairs switch, swap the two reds over.

In the upstairs switch, put both reds in the L1, black and blue into L2 and the yellow into the COM. The other gang will then be empty. If this works, change the switch for a 1 gang type!

To two-way both the switches, a 3 core and earth cable would need running from top switch to bottom

 

[GK1]

Ok. I've done your suggestions -the downstairs switch now controls the upstairs and downstairs lights correctly - but the upstairs switch now doesn't turn its light off!!

I've got a switched live crossed with a live somewhere -suggestions?

 

[GK1]

Further to my last message: The downstairs switch now acts as a toggle. Once switched to on, the upstairs light stays on regardless of the switch upstairs. But when switched to off, the upstairs switch now is able to control the light normally - But when it is switched to on this now makes the downstairs switch non-functional: it cannot turn the light off.