4 main wires 1 switch (have you seen this before?)

[graham31]

Hi the below image is of my kitchen light switch.

//www.diynot.com/network/graham31/albums/

I'll try and explain it the best i can.

There are 4 main wires coming down to the double light switch.

The light switch is a double light switch controling 2 lights separately in my kitchen. The wiring for the light switch is all interlinked with my downstairs lights. As i have found out due to none of my downstair lights working.

The picture shows all the black wires bar 1 joined together and not connected to the light switch in an capacity

The earth wires all joined together and connected to the earth on the switch.

The 4 red wires are going to the switch and as follows -

2 red wires ( 1 with a loop) going to common.

Another 2 red wires going to 2 L1 on the switch.

I've disconnected the light switch and marked the wires (or i thought i did) where the wires go.

Now i've tried to connect the switch back up and now the lights in my kitchen are not working as are none of my lights downstairs.

I've taken off some other light switches downstairs and they all seem to have 3 main wires running to them and have all been connected up by the red wires and the black wires have all been taped off.

Has any of you ever seen lights wired up like this?.

I take it i'm going to need a meter to find what wire is live before i can move forward, as in getting my lights working again.

And before someone says yes i have flipped the trip switch back to on.

thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If other lights have stopped working then the chances are that either the blacks are neutrals and the circuit loops through the switches, not the lights, or the live loops through there with the neutral looped at the fittings.

What happens if you join all of the reds together?

When you say that at the other switches the blacks are all taped off - are they twisted together and then taped up, or separate?

 

[graham31]

If other lights have stopped working then the chances are that either the blacks are neutrals and the circuit loops through the switches, not the lights, or the live loops through there with the neutral looped at the fittings.

What happens if you join all of the reds together?

When you say that at the other switches the blacks are all taped off - are they twisted together and then taped up, or separate?

Not joined all the reds together.

The blacks in the other switches are twisted together and taped off.

In the original pic there is one black wire separate from the other black wires joined together, but i can't recall seeing this separate black wire wired to the switch in an way.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The blacks in the other switches are twisted together and taped off.

Sounds like the circuit loops through the switches, and you've broken it by not reconnecting it as it was.

You'll need that meter.

And you should do something about the twisting and taping - that's not right, you should use choc-block. It also sounds like a muppet was fiddling with the electrics before you bought the place.

In the original pic there is one black wire separate from the other black wires joined together,

You're sure it was always separate?

but i can't recall seeing this separate black wire wired to the switch in an way.

If it's a neutral that's the last thing you'd want.

 

[Space cat]

I can see no reason why that black wire should be floating free. Have a close look at the tape around the ends of the other three. Can you see any way that the fourth one could have been in there? Alternatively, does it show any signs of being gripped by a terminal screw? (Your picture doesn't have enough resolution to show this.)

 

[graham31]

I can see no reason why that black wire should be floating free. Have a close look at the tape around the ends of the other three. Can you see any way that the fourth one could have been in there? Alternatively, does it show any signs of being gripped by a terminal screw? (Your picture doesn't have enough resolution to show this.)

Aready had a look at the wire dosen't look like it has been gripped.

 

[graham31]

And you should do something about the twisting and taping - that's not right, you should use choc-block. It also sounds like a muppet was fiddling with the electrics before you bought the place.[quote =]

Your right about a muppet having messed with the electrics and other things in the house before i bought it.

 

[Space cat]

Aready had a look at the wire dosen't look like it has been gripped.

Then there's a very high probability that it fell out of that taped up bundle when you took the switch off. If it's the neutral return wire going back to the CU, none of the lights on that circuit will work.

 

[graham31]

Thanks all for your help, returned the black floating wire to the other 3 and wired the switch back up and all is working.

Another problem i could do with some help if that's ok.

I want to change the above light switch (2 gang) to a 3 gang one way. I have under cabinet downlighter to install.

The undercabinet lights comes with a transformer that has a brown and blue wire and says it dosen't need to be earthed.

My problem is how do i wire the transformer to the light switch and get power to it.

Bearing in mind the original light switch is wire with 4 red (2 with a loop going to common & 2 Going to 2 L1) going to the switch, all the blacks now in a choc - block(not going to the switch) and all the earths in a choc - block going to the witch.

Any help would be greatly received.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://kevinboone.net/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting
  
  

 

[Space cat]

My problem is how do i wire the transformer to the light switch and get power to it.

1) Choose a location for the transformer.

2) Run a length of 1 sq mm flat T&E cable from the switch to some sort of junction box near to the transformer. This is the hardest part of the job. If you can get hold of cable in the old colours, do so.

3) Replace the 2-gang switch with the new 3-gang one, swapping wires over like for like but leaving one switch unused.

4) Make sure everything still works.

5) Fit a small loop of red wire from the linked Common terminals to Common on the third switch.

6) Connect the red core of your new cable to L1 in the third switch, the black core to the other blacks and earth to the other earths.

7) At the transformer end, connect transformer live to red and neutral to black. Put earth in a spare terminal for future use.

9) If any switch works 'upside down', move the red wire from L1 to L2 on that switch.

Job done.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I already told him all that (well, not the bit about the old colour cable).

 

[sparkybird]

Is it me, or is that switch missing a back box???

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Does look that way.

 

[Space cat]

In which case, how was the switch held in place???