40 amp meter-replacement needed?

[Davey101]

First off, this is my first post, so, er, hello
My mum and Dad are having an extension built, and I am wiring it for them (I'm an electrician). I'm also replacing the CU, as they have a rather sorry looking Wylex re-wirable at the mo. The meter is an old 40 amp type,with 16mm tails, and I think a 6mm earth, although the Fuse and holder is a new type, as it was replaced about 10 years ago, as the old one was defective and was getting very hot. I will of course be upgrading all bonding and earthing conductors.

I've had very little to do with supply authorities over the years, partly because I dont work for myself, and also, because I dont generally do domestics (thank god). I was always under the impression that a 40 amp meter needed replacing, depending on the load on it, and this was done as a matter of course if you asked for it (the ones I have come across have been replaced).
My parents contacted their Suppliers, expalining that they were having some work done, and that I suggested that the meter should be replaced, but they were told that ' people dont tell us that the meter needed replacing, we decide that, based on your bills', and that if needed, they would switch my parents to economy 7!!?

So, 2 questions really
1, does the meter need replacing (I cant see how it could not)
2, will the supply authority replace it, presumably FOC.

Its a 3 bed cottage in Gloucestershire, with 1 electric oven and hob, bathroom with 8/9Kw shower, and future downstairs wet room with 9/10Kw shower.

Any advice appreciated, especially the best way to get them to replace it .

Cheers, Dave

 

[nozspark]

First off, this is my first post, so, er, hello
My mum and Dad are having an extension built, and I am wiring it for them (I'm an electrician). I'm also replacing the CU, as they have a rather sorry looking Wylex re-wirable at the mo. The meter is an old 40 amp type, although the Fuse and holder is a new type, as it was replaced about 10 years ago, as the old one was defective and was getting very hot.

I've had very little to do with supply authorities over the years, partly because I dont work for myself, and also, because I dont generally do domestics (thank god). I was always under the impression that a 40 amp meter needed replacing, depending on the load on it, and this was done as a matter of course if you asked for it (the ones I have come across have been replaced).
My parents contacted their Suppliers, expalining that they were having some work done, and that I suggested that the meter should be replaced, but they were told that ' people dont tell us that the meter needed replacing, we decide that, based on your bills', and that if needed, they would switch my parents to economy 7!!?

So, 2 questions really
1, does the meter need replacing (I cant see how it could not)
2, will the supply authority replace it, presumably FOC.

Its a 3 bed cottage in Gloucestershire, with 1 electric oven and hob, bathroom with 8/9Kw shower, and future downstairs wet room with 9/10Kw shower.

Any advice appreciated, especially the best way to get them to replace it .

Cheers, Dave

I assume your parents have central heating and not night storage heaters!!!

Sounds like they spoke to a "customer advisor"

I do not have any experience of this myself though, I'm afraid I've never had to ask for this type of upgrade

I have asked for and got a 1ph to 3ph upgrade though, without a problem... I don't know what the customer paid though

 

[Davey101]

My parents have a WOOD burner, which provides central heating, I dont think it uses much electricity

I was struggling to find something to say to my parents when they told me of the conversation they had with the 'advisor'.
I presume he was on some sort of traning scheme (or drugs).

 

[rebuke]

The people you end up speaking to normally don't know a thing - it took me long enough to convince my supplier (British Gas) that officially I needed them to fit an isolator, and couldn't just get an electrician in (since it involves breaking the seal on the meter!)...

Unfortunately the DNOs aren't much better - i rang mine (EDF) to query about the form they'd sent me to fill in to get service fuse upgraded (it basically said if an electrician wasn't involved that I'd need to send them written authority from building control under Part P - I wanted to find out exactly what they meant by that, i.e. acknowledgement of receipt of building notice / completion certificate etc), and all the people I spoke to didn't have a clue what Part P was, let alone what was needed. I didn't bother to ask the follow up question I was going to ask, which is what would happen if I wasn't doing any electrical work but just wanted the fuse upgraded (e.g. had moved in and decided it was underrated) - what on earth would I put on the building notice!

 

[sm1thson]

what size fuse is in there now?

 

[hairyben]

When I worked for the electric board a 40 amp meter was "regarded" as being able to handle well in excess of it's rated current, and wasn't a safety issue. whether it measures accurately I don't know...

 

[Davey101]

Cheers for the replies.
Without looking, I'm not sure what size the fuse is, but I would presume it is a 100amp.

 

[JohnD]

the suppliers don't usually change meters or fuses unless they have some reason to believe it needs it. The rating is not enough of a reason.

If the main fuse blows, or if the meter overheats, drips black tar, or squeaks because it is worn out, they may change their mind.

The tails and main bonding probably need replacing too. See if they will provide PME earthing, or at least a good earthing point. They might do it free, or might charge £50 or £100, but it will often be money well spent.

btw I find that if you want anything out of the range of the Customer Advisor skills, you are wasting your time phoning the Call Centre. You get better results by sending a brief and clear letter, which will be logged and passed along until it reaches someone competent to deal with it. Phone calls can easily be fobbed off. You can always write to the address on the bill, the supplier is responsible for passing it on to the responsible company, and for knowing who that is. Customers are not required to know the difference between Meterpoint, DNO and PES.

 

[Steve]

It sounds like the OP got through to someone who thought they wanted to change their tarrif.

"We decide when to change your meter based on your bills"

That reads

"when your bills go right down or right up it means your meter is chuffed so we change it"

 

[Davey101]

Thanks for the tip about the letter.
As well as replacing the CU, they would also like to move the meter, cutout etc. At present it is in the kitchen, it did have a cupboard around it, but they want to tidy it up a bit (with a bit of prodding from me).
The idea is to either build a small brick cupboard outside, or get a surface box to put the meter in. I presume that the metering department is different from whoever would move the supply into the house?
Any idea how best to approach this, to get it changed, and moved in one go?

 

[JohnD]

they charge ££££££s for moving meters

however, they like to have meters outside so they can read them when you're out, and may offer a more reasonable cost.

short letter to the address on the electricity bill will set the wheels in motion.

if you say "as I am quite slow on my feet due to age and infirmity, it would be convenient to have the meter in a box outside the house so you can read it without disturbing me" they may respond well.

 

[sm1thson]

Cheers for the replies.
Without looking, I'm not sure what size the fuse is, but I would presume it is a 100amp.

it often isnt even when they supply a 100amp holder, if your planning on supplying two showers it would be worth checking this sooner rather than later.

 

[securespark]

I will of course be upgrading all bonding and earthing conductors.

Which earthing conductors need upgrading?

 

[Davey101]

From memory the bond to the earth spike is 4mm.
Not sure if the water is bonded at all.

 

[Deleted member 54734]

As for the meter.
All meters belonging to a DNO have a certification date.
Usually this is seen on a little round sticker on the front tho some don't have a sticker and some have fallen off over the years.
OFGEM decide how long a meter is certified to read correctly for depending on the type of meter, not all meters have the same life span.
In our area the majority last between 10 and 30yrs.
The DNO/meter operator will know when the meter needs replacing but this doesn't mean they don't forget about some.
If you speak to your supplier again ask them when the meter is due for a change.
AFAIK if your meter is out of cert life you can argue it's not accurate and don't have to pay your bill, tho I've not actually read that anywhere and it's just word of mouth.

Would have thought most 40A meters had been changed by now, maybe yours is out of cert?