5 bedroom Cottage but 2 bedrooms are not habitable ?

[wwwebber]

Hi, just moved into an 1830's cottage and have found what could be a massive / expensive issue. It appears that the 2 bedrooms in the loft fall foul of many regs.

Please confirm that my thinking is correct on the following non compliance with regs :-

• Floor joists are 6 x 2 - I believe they should be at least 8 x 2 (for 4m spans)
• No smoke alarms or fire doors on this floor
• Side windows are about 600mm up from the eaves - should be at least 1700mm

Other possible issues are :-

• The roof appears to be insulated mainly by 50mm insulation backed plaster board on the top but I don't know what is behind it yet so this may be non compliant too
• There is a dormer window in each room which seems ok, but do they need to be a 45mm opening for fire escape purposes ? - I'll need to measure up and check if this is still a reg
• No heating on this floor but I intend to extend the central heating system and install some rads - gas boiler is 100k BTU which in theory should be ok ?

There are permanent stairs to this floor which seem ok.

We intended to actually use these as bedrooms - please confirm that my thinking is correct and that we can't legally use them as bedrooms until these issues are fixed ?.

Thanks so much in advance.

 

[TheVictorian]

Building regulations are not retrospective, the house met the standards of the time and is fine to live in. 99% of period properties won't meet current regulations.

 

[wwwebber]

Building regulations are not retrospective, the house met the standards of the time and is fine to live in. 99% of period properties won't meet current regulations.

I think the conversion was done during the last 10 years ?

 

[wessex101]

Assuming it is a recent loft conversion the issue is not so much that the work is "illegal" as the chances of the local Council actually taking enforcement action are very slim.

The problem is the work may potentially be hazardous to your health and well being. If fire precautions have not been adhered to the rooms could constitute a fire risk, if the structure is not adequate there could be issues with the stability of the building. On a more trivial scale, if the insulation is not up to standard the rooms could be very expensive to keep warm etc. etc.

You probably need to go back to your conveyancer/solicitor to find out where you stand regarding previous owner not declaring the loft conversion and why it was not flagged up in your survey. Were they by any chance described as "loft rooms" and not bedrooms?

 

[Nakajo]

Fowl? Just remove the chickens.

 

[wwwebber]

Assuming it is a recent loft conversion the issue is not so much that the work is "illegal" as the chances of the local Council actually taking enforcement action are very slim.

The problem is the work may potentially be hazardous to your health and well being. If fire precautions have not been adhered to the rooms could constitute a fire risk, if the structure is not adequate there could be issues with the stability of the building. On a more trivial scale, if the insulation is not up to standard the rooms could be very expensive to keep warm etc. etc.

You probably need to go back to your conveyancer/solicitor to find out where you stand regarding previous owner not declaring the loft conversion and why it was not flagged up in your survey. Were they by any chance described as "loft rooms" and not bedrooms?

Good responses, thank you.

So it sounds like if I take as many precautions as I can (fit smoke alarms, increase insulation, be careful with weight load etc) it sounds like I might be able to manage this issue.

The rooms were indeed described as bedrooms. However, one more point to make, the total usable floor space is about 35 sq meters which takes it very near to 50 cubic meters which needs planning permission ?

 

[wessex101]

The 50 cubic metres only applies to a new dormer or extra added volume added to the existing roof shape, not new usable floor space within the existing loft space.

50 cubic metres is actually very big so if the previous owners have added dormers totaling more than that it should be pretty obvious.

 

[wwwebber]

The 50 cubic metres only applies to a new dormer or extra added volume added to the existing roof shape, not new usable floor space within the existing loft space.

50 cubic metres is actually very big so if the previous owners have added dormers totaling more than that it should be pretty obvious.

Excellent - thank you for the clarification.

In summary then, things arent as bad as they first seemed - we just need to take some sensible precautions regarding safety etc and we should be use the rooms as we please ?

 

[garyo]

On a more trivial scale, if the insulation is not up to standard the rooms could be very expensive to keep warm etc. etc.

And in my experience you can't sleep in them on the summer days where the sun has been beating down on the uninsulated tiled roof.

 

[clifford1]

Fowl? Just remove the chickens.

That's what I did. The previous owners kept pigeons in the attic, removed when we took possession.

 

[wwwebber]

ok, I've now had some time to look into this further, pulled up a floorboard and have discovered that despite being told verbally by the previous owners that the loft floor joists were 6x2 they are in fact 3x2 !!!. I assume that this is now a whole new ball game ?, ie 6x2 may have worked but 3x2 is defo not suitable for anything more than light storage ?. To use these rooms for anything other would certainly require new floor joists ?

Oh and I forgot to mention they have 500mm centres too which is even worse ?

 

[GeoffJ]

Sorry to ask a simple question - did you get a full survey before you purchased it? The property has several flags that a full survey would be very highly recommended.

Did the previous owner put the statement concerning 6x2 joists in writing - You could sue the restitution if he/she did?

 

[wwwebber]

Sorry to ask a simple question - did you get a full survey before you purchased it? The property has several flags that a full survey would be very highly recommended.

Did the previous owner put the statement concerning 6x2 joists in writing - You could sue the restitution if he/she did?

Nope, regretfully we requested a standard survey only - yes i know - big fail. Also, nothing in writing I'm afraid. I'm now contacting our conveyancer/solicitor to see if the sellers purchased indemnity insurance and if we have any comeback with them or the estate agents.

However, I assume that I'm right though ? - there's now way forward with the current joists ?

 

[GeoffJ]

It sounds like that the attic space is only good for light-storage (or possibly the keeping of pigeons)

 

[John D v2.0]

Indemnity insurance won't help you, it won't pay for the correct joists.
Basically it's a posh loft not a room, and would need starting from scratch.
Definitely get on to the solicitor and surveyor. The surveyor presumably valued it as a 5 bed so the mortgage company wouldn't be happy with the incorrect valuation.
I don't think you'll have comeback with the estate agents, this would be mostly on the seller if they made incorrect statements.