"A Society that believes in nothing?"

[cantaloup63]

As for your point about in an Islamic state, people who plot towards suicide bombing etc would be executed. I trust you can see the harsh irony about this - an Islamic (i.e. religion based) state would sanction and use executions, in the name of its religion.

Yes, in the name or religion, as a just punishment for their crimes.

The justice system should be there to not only hand out justice, but to protect society.

Criminals MUST be punished for their crimes accordingly... How is this justice?

It's the fact that you are claiming that a religious based country sanctions the killing of another human being in order to defend that nation, and justifies this killing by using "god" to do so.

Who the heck has the right to kill another of god's creations? Who has sanctioned this? God? This is what you are saying is the case - god has somehow told someone along the line to spread the word that it is right to kill.

This is a complete absurdity and again demonstrates the futility and dangers of following manmade religions.

Note: Whether or not ther death penalty should be used or not is not what I am discussing (that's for another thread); it's whether a religion can morally or ethically recommend it.

 

[Space cat]

Its forbidden to burn down homes of your enemies

I remember a Muslim telling me years ago that it was forbidden to use fire as a weapon, even against a military target. Is this the first recorded ban on a WMD?

 

[Nige F]

..My Personal Bible: *** Treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.***

Simples – and it saves a lot of time reading rubbish when you could be reading about history or doing something more constructive...

You are a Kingsleyan then *Doasyouwouldbedoneby* There is a lot of history in the bible - the interesting thing is you can read it and choose to believe or not - whereas you have no choice but to believe conventional history

 

[Big Tone]

There is a lot of history in the bible - the interesting thing is you can read it and choose to believe or not - whereas you have no choice but to believe conventional history

History or his-story?

The Earth flooded, (not enough water to do it), water into wine, (more fantasy), off with that 4skin, (which 'god' in its infinite wisdom put there in the first place and which has a function and purpose. It is also child abuse!). I could go on..

If Pen and Teller went back in time they would be Gods.

I choose not to believe ignorant, uneducated and unscientific poppycock from flat-earthers where earthquakes, volcanoes and an eclipse were signs that god was angry or a sacrifice must be made. They were ignorant fools trying to fool others while yet more fools watched on...

 

[zanwan]

It's the fact that you are claiming that a religious based country sanctions the killing of another human being in order to defend that nation, and justifies this killing by using "god" to do so.

Your making out as if i'm saying religion sanctions ramdom killing of people. It does not.

I am saying that criminals must be punished accordingly. Therefore IF someone commits a crime such as murder, they should be punihsed accordingly, and under Islamic Laws, this is execution.

Who the heck has the right to kill another of god's creations? Who has sanctioned this? God? This is what you are saying is the case - god has somehow told someone along the line to spread the word that it is right to kill.

Yes God tells us not to kill innocent people. However he has clearly stated that for certain crimes, the punihsment is death, both as a punihsment, a deterrance and to protect society. How many freed murderers have gone on to kill after being freed? Their are quite a few cases. This should NEVER be allowed to happen and therefore execution is an appropriate punihsment for these people.

This is a complete absurdity and again demonstrates the futility and dangers of following manmade religions.

Note: Whether or not ther death penalty should be used or not is not what I am discussing (that's for another thread); it's whether a religion can morally or ethically recommend it.

[/quote]

Well i believe God, through religion, can morally and ethically recommend it. If we believe in a greater Being, in a greater power who has given us life, who has created the incredible world we live in, how can we question his punishments for those who commit the most heinous of crimes?

 

[Big Tone]

Personal question Naz and please do ignore this if you like, but are you a round head or cavalier?

 

[zanwan]

Personal question Naz and please do ignore this if you like, but are you a round head or cavalier?

lol .....erm....i'm a bit confused by the question! please rephrase

 

[Big Tone]

Is your helmet a hoody? One skin, two skin, three skin...

Edit.. I'm not a perve btw, I'm going somewhere with this if It's in your religion...

 

[cantaloup63]

Your making out as if i'm saying religion sanctions ramdom killing of people. It does not.

I am saying that criminals must be punished accordingly. Therefore IF someone commits a crime such as murder, they should be punihsed accordingly, and under Islamic Laws, this is execution.

Maybe I'm missing something when you use the term "Islamic". Mu understanding is that this is a religious term, and that you are saying that a religious law permits or even requires killing. Under your laws, since I am not "of the book" I am therefore commiting a crime and therefore should presumably be put to death.

Yes God tells us not to kill innocent people. However he has clearly stated that for certain crimes, the punihsment is death, both as a punihsment, a deterrance and to protect society.

Has god spoken to you personally about these matters, one-on-one, face-to-face? Or are you just going to take the alleged word of some bloke a few hundred years ago who did very well for himself out of his claims.

Suppose someone is found guilty and therefore executed, and suppose (heaven forbid) it is subsequently discovered that he wasn't guilty at all. In fact he has never hurt anyone and been a complete pinnacle of perfect behaviour, innocent of anything untoward whatsoever. This would mean that the Islamic state and by association every single person living within it would be guilty of murdering an innocent. Therefore, by god's will, everyone within that state should be executed as a punishment and deterrent to, well nobody since nobody would be left. This is the potential consequence of what you are saying Naz.

Well i believe God, through religion, can morally and ethically recommend it. If we believe in a greater Being, in a greater power who has given us life, who has created the incredible world we live in, how can we question his punishments for those who commit the most heinous of crimes?

I have no idea whether there is a god - in many ways I hope that there is. But of one thing I am absolutely certain, he has never spoken to anyone, never written anything, never been represented on earth and most certainly never suggested that his name can be used as a justification for killing anyone.

 

[cantaloup63]

PS - Big Tone is asking if you are circumcised

 

[Big Tone]

PS - Big Tone is asking if you are circumcised

Concise, or child abuse as it's otherwise known. Re: my post a few posts back to Nige F.

 

[cantaloup63]

PS - Big Tone is asking if you are circumcised

Concise, or child abuse as it's otherwise known. Re: my post a few posts back to Nige F.

We're told that appendix (as in appendicitis) is a curiously obsolete part of our anatomy that serves no purpose but some reason we are born with. Maybe there are other parts of our body that we reaaly would be better off without, including the foreskin

 

[Big Tone]

PS - Big Tone is asking if you are circumcised

Concise, or child abuse as it's otherwise known. Re: my post a few posts back to Nige F.

We're told that appendix (as in appendicitis) is a curiously obsolete part of our anatomy that serves no purpose but some reason we are born with. Maybe there are other parts of our body that we reaaly would be better off without, including the ****

I’ve heard all sorts of justifications for this barbaric practice over the years but the bottom line is either ‘god’ put it there for a reason or he didn’t. Whichever way one looks at it, god is either stupid for putting something “useless” there or even more stupid and cruel for expecting us to remove his useless ‘perfect’ design.

I’m not trying to change the topic, it’s pertinent if Naz’s faith also approves, encourages or condones it.

I’m guessing you know what side I’m on here. My society which believes 'something' quite rightly treats it as child abuse. Sadly, these acts of sadism are rife all over the world - especially in America where it’s literally an industry! (All in the name of god or a dumb book of course).

 

[zanwan]

Is your helmet a hoody? One skin, two skin, three skin...

Edit.. I'm not a perve btw, I'm going somewhere with this if It's in your religion...

my helmet has no hood, the skin, of the fourth kind, has been banished. This hotdog is halal

 

[zanwan]

Under your laws, since I am not "of the book" I am therefore commiting a crime and therefore should presumably be put to death.

i dont know where you read this but this is certainly not true. There is no compulsion in religion. People are free to chose their faith and under Islamic law this right is protected, these places of worship would be protected and the peope are free to worship as they please.

Suppose someone is found guilty and therefore executed, and suppose (heaven forbid) it is subsequently discovered that he wasn't guilty at all. In fact he has never hurt anyone and been a complete pinnacle of perfect behaviour, innocent of anything untoward whatsoever. This would mean that the Islamic state and by association every single person living within it would be guilty of murdering an innocent. Therefore, by god's will, everyone within that state should be executed as a punishment and deterrent to, well nobody since nobody would be left. This is the potential consequence of what you are saying Naz.

No. Execution under Islamic Quranic law would not be used unless there was compelling evidence as to someones guilt. Unlike the USA, an Islamic governing system would not allow executions to be used for political purposes. A perfect example of how executrions are used by politicians is GW Bush's brother in Texas. When he was governer of the state, their was a marked rise in executions, in particular of black men. Coincidence? I think not.

But of one thing I am absolutely certain, he has never spoken to anyone, never written anything, never been represented on earth and most certainly never suggested that his name can be used as a justification for killing anyone.

How can you be so sure? You have no means of proving someone who claims they spoke to god is lying. Just like you cannot tell me what dreams i had last night are not real. Just because you cannot see something, doesnt mean its not there. There is no way of seeing what people dream. Yet we all have dreams. Do you therefore claim dreams happen, simply because you dont see them?