adding 4 addtional sockets from a socket

[dibba]

Hi, i wish to add four addional sockets for w.machine, oven, extractor fan & fridge. Would like to take power to a Crabtree 6904 Grid Yoke - 4 Gang, then take power to respective sockets under the worktop. Is it possible to achieve this by taking a spur from a ring or radial? Just do not wish to have four inidividual isolation points for the appliances.

thanks

Dibba

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Is it possible to achieve this by taking a spur from a ring or radial?

Not from a ring - you'll never run all of that from one FCU. It's a bit worrying that you thought you could.

Have you got a radial you could use?

Just do not wish to have four inidividual isolation points for the appliances.

So what are you going to have in the grid plate?

Also, note that the work is notifiable and the work requires testing - you should seriously consider getting an electrician.

 

[ericmark]

The standard ring is designed to have no fixed appliance over 2kW and only one item can be connected to a spur although that one item can be a fuse and one fused down extra items can be added.

The kitchen ring is often just two parallel conductors used as it's hard to get 4mm cables into grid switches so 2 x 2.5mm cables are used. These are very different to the standard ring found in the rest of the house.

To design and install is not really a DIY job and I have seen many where mistakes present a real fire risk. It's not easy working in such a small space found in the grid switch and even electricians have had wires come off while installing which is why the testing is very important.

In England and Wales the Part P regulations mean it is likely more expensive to DIY than to get a scheme member electrician to do the work. So not really worth worrying about just get an electrician to do the work for you.

Even with all the test equipment and years of training it's still cheaper for me to get a scheme member electrician to do the work.

 

[dibba]

thanks for the reply. I had thought to use the
Crabtree 4460/HB Grid Switch 20a DP on the grid plates. I had thought this would save on having isolation switches scattered across the walls.
It is my intention to have it tested.

I have three sockets on the wall. Will need to check if these are part of a ring.

So what are the options to do this correctly, other than employing a electrician.

Basically have a washing machine, gas cooker with electrical ignition, electric oven, extractor hood & fridge. I would like to have isolation switches for all.
I have no sockets below the counter. I appreciate any help. Rest assure that i have every intention of having the work tested, from legal & safety standard point .
Ps. May be the grid option is not a option.

 

[flyingsparks]

Ou can still have a grid but you will need at least one new dedicated radial from the cu for the oven.

 

[dibba]

so i could take a spur from an existing socket (if radial) for the fridge, hob ignition, extractor hood. Then take new cable from cu for oven, which, i believe is 0.79KW.

thanks

Dibba

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is my intention to have it tested.
.
.
Rest assure that i have every intention of having the work tested, from legal & safety standard point .

You can't just "have it tested". If your position is to comply with the law then you have to apply for Buildings Regulation approval in advance, and describe how you will ensure that the work will comply with Part P. Depending on how your particular LABC deals with things you may need to involve an electrician right from the start, and only DIY the things he's happy for you to do.

So what are the options to do this correctly, other than employing a electrician.

Learn the principles of circuit design.
Learn about the rules governing the installation of cables and accessories etc.
Apply for Building Regulations approval.
Do the work, and test it before and after energising.

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Basically have a washing machine, gas cooker with electrical ignition, electric oven, extractor hood & fridge. I would like to have isolation switches for all.

I had thought to use the
Crabtree 4460/HB Grid Switch 20a DP on the grid plates. I had thought this would save on having isolation switches scattered across the walls.

Where would all the cables run? Be aware that there are restrictions on where they can be buried: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

 

[ban-all-sheds]

so i could take a spur from an existing socket (if radial) for the fridge, hob ignition, extractor hood.

How would you actually wire it?

What about the washing machine?

Then take new cable from cu for oven, which, i believe is 0.79KW.

What size cable?

What rating MCB?

How would the cable be installed?

Also, unless it's a microwave oven it won't be 790W. You aren't quoting one of it's specified kWh ratings are you?

 

[DCC]

The standard ring is designed

From a layman's point of view I can't see that a ring was designed to do anything other than save cable. Any installation that allows 13A sockets that have _no_ restriction on them from a users point of view to be magically unsafe over 2kw is frankly, bizarre.

 

[ericmark]

Although the ring was designed during the second world war to save cable during the post war rebuild there have been some alterations to it since the orignal.

One is the insulation on the pins so you can't touch the live parts when withdrawing the plug. This has reduced the metal which can remove heat and although it can happily handle 13A for a short time when boiling a kettle for example continuous 13A is a problem.

Cable also became slightly thinner when we went metric and so the rules were adapted to allow for the problems.

Yes you can DIY. Step one is to write out your design and submit it to the LABC together with their fee for approval. They will then have to assess if you have the skills required. They may allow you to test or you may have to pay extra to get it tested. The hire of test equipment will of course also cost.

So in round figures allow around £250 for fees and hire charges to DIY. Add to this materials and I am sure you can see why I said to DIY is likely more expensive than to get a scheme member electrician to do the work.

It's a legacy from the Labour government. There are moves to change it and Wales and England it seems will then have a separate system as Scotland has now. As to if it will be cheaper or not remains to be seen.

 

[dibba]

....i thought this may be a easy task!!!..looks i will need to get a decent, not to expensive electrician.

Does any one know of any in Nottm, city centre region?

thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's a legacy from the Labour government.

this is a legacy from the Labour government called Part P.

Although the consultation document may have been issued in 2002, it contained the results of the Regulatory Impact Analysis (performed by Civil Servants, not politicians) which must have taken a while, and the first edition of Approved Document P (ditto).

The whole process which led to the consultation document being issued kicked off in response to the Construction Industry Deregulation Task Force’s 1995 report which recommended amongst other things that the Building Regulations should address electrical safety and that the administrative burden on builders should be rationalised. The Government at the time responded to these recommendations by agreeing to review the case for new requirements and how they might best be practically introduced.

Blair/Brown/Prescott were nothing to do with the Government in 1995 (some bloke called Major was in charge), and between 1997 & 2002 there were a few other distractions, like handing back Hong Kong, wars in Kosovo & Afghanistan and the run-up to the 2nd Gulf one, Scottish & Welsh Devolution, House of Lords reform, Foot & Mouth crisis etc. When a report produced after years of work by civil servants and industry experts telling them that painstaking and diligent research showed that this proposed legislation, supported by hundreds of relevant and expert bodies, would save lives arrived it was not unreasonable for them to say "OK, we'll lay it before Parliament", rather than starting all over again to verify the work already done. That's how governments work and that's what would have happened whoever had been in power.